"But the protesters who filled the streets of Dutch cities yesterday did not generally come from the country's extreme right.

Most of them described themselves as leftists, liberals or social democrats, who have turned against Muslims because of their conservative values."

Sounds like we are seeing some very angry people.

As the old song goes: "This may be the start of something big!"

I know ... wishful thinking; but inevitable. They need to start before they become too long in the tooth.

Oh well, more men without chests about to become men without heads. Feel the pain.

The Dutch gained a reputation for tolerance when we accepted the French Huguenots and others who were fleeing religious persecutions in Europe.
However, tolerance did not equal acceptance. Catholics were not allowed to openly worship and depended on 'schuilkerken', churches disguished as normal buildings. Obviously this was relaxed later, but up to 1950, we had the 'verzuiling', where protestants, catholics and areligious populations co-existed peacefully but used separate shops, schools, doctors, etc.
We have a (mostly deserved) reputation for being friendly, but also for not opening up past those initial pleasantries. Still, I think we did a better job on integration than France or Belgium. As this blog so often points out, in the end the only thing that matters is relative birthrates.

...a multicultural dogma that leaves no culture for Muslims to be assimilated into.

Result: Islamic Culture becomes the only culture by default. (Last culture standing?)

It surely will be in Europe.

This is their last chance to wake up and kick the Arabs to the curb.

Pim Fortuyn was no racist, the current head of the party is a Cape Verdean Catholic. The Dutch are afraid of the Muslim terror as all civilized people should be. If the Muslims ceased being vicious animals, they would have no problems in the West. But that's not about to happen anytime soon.

--Most of them described themselves as leftists, liberals or social democrats, who have turned against Muslims because of their conservative values."---

Ahh, another 2x4 which slapped the most tolerant upside the head. Why are you doing this to us? We're tolerant of your choices, why can't you be tolerant of ours? And in our country????? We're the enlightened ones, we know by you living here, you'll see the wisdom of our ways and beliefs. Ingrates.

Welcome to reality.

Bjorn Staerk of Norway has a long thread on this topic and I'm seeing some new European names posting there.

Some Norweigans might be paying attention as well.

Bart:

Of course he was, plus pro-paedophilia.

Grenades? Where do tolerant, peaceful people get grenades on short notice?

Makes our Second Amendment folks sound like pikers.

Orrin, I always find it amusing to hear how Republicans, who are unjustly stigmatized as deranged racists by their domestic opponents, are so quick to stigmatize European political movements as racist because the European ultraleftist media say they are. Fortuyn was no racist, period. He was a Dutch Andrew Sullivan, which is bad enough.

Peter:

Anti-immigration Republicans are racists. Pim Fortuyn made racism his officiaslpolicy, and paedophilia. He was evil.

oj

How is anti immigration being racist? You lost me on that.

Most people I know who are "anti-immigration" are anti illegal immigration. They are both Kerry and Bush voters. I don't understand your Republican as racist conclusion.

Ted:

They all oppose Mexican immigration, not immigration and not illegality. Witness the shrieking over the President's plan to just make them legal.

That is me too oj. I dont believe we should reward law breaking. Didnt we do that in the 80s as a one time fix?

It seems that the vast majority of illegals in this country are Mexican. Not surprising considering the geography.

I, for one, am not opposed to regulating "guest workers" Have a system. Have them paid and have their pay reported as income to each country. Work out their social security and health care between the two countries. Dependants stay in the home country. At the same time, make it a crime punishable by prison for illegally entering the country. that may already be the case, but not enforced. And all of this applicable not just to Mexico, but to other countries wishing to join the system.

Ted:

If you'd let them all come then you aren't anti-immigration.

Are you proposing that we annex Mexico???

Now that would be real Jacksoniasm !

We lost 3,000 people on September 11. The Dutch lost 1 guy. We have hardly any violence directed at Muslims. The Dutch riot and commit arson on schools, among other things. Who is the more civilized? The cowboy American or the tolerant European?

Ted:

No, let them move here.

Ok oj. But should we limit your open door to Mexico? I am sure we can find advocates for other countries to share in the care and feeding of their people.

Ted:

The only limits should be ideological, not ethnic.

Methinks that any limits on anyone might be construed as ethnic (whatever that means).

If I have not been misled, we have immigration quotas for many countries, encompassing a wide variety of peoples. What is wrong with the current system?

As long as we have more jobs losses than at any time since Herbert Hoover and an unemployment rate pushing 5 1/2% and jobs being sent offshore, how can we absorb more people into our work force?

Ted: Please tell me your last sentence is meant to be ironic...

Ted:

More people who make excellent citizens want to come.

"excellent citizens' That phrase seems to presuppose some form of evaluation as to what an excellent citizen is and whether any particular candidate meets those requirements.

I wonder if there are countries in the world which have an immigration policy such as you seem to suggest. And what their experience is.

America in the 19th century?

The issue should be culture. Can the group integrate into the broad framework of the society in which they will move? Do they try to learn the language or do they insist on being a hostile nation in a nation? Muslims as a culture seem to want to overturn the underpinnings of Dutch society and hence should not be there. One could hardly make the same claim about other minorities living in Holland like the Jews, Chinese or Indians.

There is no Dutch culture any more.

oj,

Nonsense. Have you ever been there? It is one of the great European cultures,perhaps the one most similar to our own.

Bart:

They elected an open paedophile to lead the country. They're so permissive as to have no culture to defend.

The 'open pedophile' finished second, and was the only guy out there defending Holland's tradition of tolerance against Muslim extremism. This resonated with 26 percent of the electorate such that they held their noses and voted for Pim.

Since his death, the major parties have tried desperately to slice off his vote by co-opting some of his message. There is a Dutch culture with magnificent artistic and scientific achievements as well as a great commercial culture, the first modern economy. Upon introspection, the Dutch seem willing to defend it.

Bart:

That's the past. What's the last significant work of Dutch art? Invention? Social innovation?

Do the names Mondrian and de Kooning come to mind?

Gerardus 't-Hooft and Martinus J.G. Veltman won the Nobel in Physics in 1999. I'd say that's noteworthy.

Phillips, Shell and Unilever are pretty important corporations don't you agree? Most indicators are that if anything Holland is freer, less corrupt and more transparent a nation to do business in than the States. They also have a voucher system enabling children to go to religious schools should they wish, and have had one for about 2 decades.

Not bad for a country with 15 million people.

Modern Art? My kids can do it. A (singular) Nobel prize? A couple leftover corporations? A population growth rate of .5%, murder of the elderly and disabled, abortion on demand. No inventions, no innovation, no culture other than a culture of death. They're reaping what they sewed.

Modern Ahrt?

You can give paintbrushes to monkeys and get Modern Ahrt.

You don't even need the paintbrushes; just let the monkeys poop and fling it. Veh-ry sophisticated comment on the Oppressive Pig Power Structure of The Great Unwashed Who Are Incapable Of Understanding Real Artistic Genius bla bla bla bla bla...

oj & ken,

Not all modern art is Jackson Pollack.

Bart:

Some's worse. None's better.

Now you're merely being facetious and argumentative.

Klimt, Kokoschka, Picasso, Braque, Gris, Miro, Garcia, do I really need to continue?

At least until you get to one that doesn't suck. That means starting before Impressionism.

oj,

It's one thing to be a barbarian, it's quite another to advertise the fact.

Bart:

Modern Art is nothing but intellectual pretense:

http://www.brothersjudd.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/reviews.detail/book_id/991/

It's unwise to advertise that you fell for it.