My dad still thinks it was the mob.

Why would they kill a guy they owned?

It's interesting to note that, unlike other conspiracies that have popped up over the years, this one is bi-partisan, with seemingly as many adhearents on the left as on the right.

Thanks in part to the ability to blame everyone from a right-wing Texas cabal led by H.L. Hunt, to LBJ and his buddies at Brown and Root (they're owned be Halliburton now, you know, so that makes the conspiracy even worse), to Richard Nixon, to the Chicago mob, to the New Orleans mob, to Fidel Castro, to Nikita Khruchev, the idea that one lone nut with a rifle could have done this will always be met by skepticism by a large part of the American public, even though Posner's book proves Oswald did act alone.

The idea that a lone Commie nut with a rifle can change the course of this country is too much for some people to bear. Their lives are controlled by outside forces, and so too must important historical events be controlled. It's the thinking of losers, and people who've been lead to think of themselves as losers (aka clients of the welfare state) and that being a loser is somehow a virture To see where that mindset leads, look at the Middle East.(or to Red Sox and Cub fans...).

I know the audio analysis of the gunshots was done after Posner's book came out.

A new book by Barr McClellan, Blood, Power and Money, argues that LBJ and his lawyers were responsible for JFK's assassination. I've not placed the review up on ESR yet but I can tell you that he's wholly unconvincing.

Everybody knows the Illumnati did it...

OK, I'll trump all of you. Saw some hack flogging his book 2 nights ago whereby it is claimed the *South Vietnamese* had a role in the assassination. Beat that one, I dare you.

Bruce:

They had just cause since he assassinated their leader.

I haven't read the Posner book; perhaps I should. Would anybody care to take the time to reveal how Posner explains away Oswald's poor marksmanship, and the whole single bullet and 3 shots in less than six seconds thing? What about all the witnesses who instinctively looked toward the "grassy knoll" after that famous head shot that explodes the entire right front quadrant of JFK's skull, which seems inconsistent with shooting from behind and 6 stories up?

Raoul:

Jeff has your answer.
Does one have to be a "loser" to see that there are some VERY large holes in the "lone gunman" theory ?

Although, per Ockham, that's probably what happened.

Michael:

Yes, one does.

Sorry, OJ, that is a ridiculous answer to a serious question.

I'm willing to change my mind if confronted with facts that explain very basic questions. I have studied this topic for close to 30 years and read many books and articles on it. You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to swallow the "Posner explains it all to the losers" angle.

The whole thing is a perfect example of "overanalysis". In short, this event has been picked and pored over from so many angles for so many years, and so many different theories have been advanced, that it's really hard for the casual student to separate the noise from the signal.

Actually, if you want to know what I think, I think the deed was bankrolled by a committee of all the husbands and boyfriends JFK had cuckolded.

I say it was a posse of jealous husbands --

or may be it was his drug dealer.

My real bottom line is who cares? What difference does it make?

To think that Lee Harvey Oswald was capable of such a professional-quality hit strains belief.

John:

I take it you never saw Full Metal Jacket?

Oh, come now. Everyone knows it was an alien from Area 51, working for the guys in the black helicopters who want to floridate the water and restore the Hapsburg empire. . . .

"Would anybody care to take the time to reveal how Posner explains away Oswald's poor marksmanship,"

The shots that Oswald loosed are the easiest to make: the target was traveling practically straight away from the shooter. Plus where is the evidence that Oswald was a poor shot?

"and the whole single bullet and 3 shots in less than six seconds thing?"

The 6.5mm bullet was a fully copper-jacketed rifle round. This bullet, that hit both JFK and then struck Connelly, travelled only thru soft tissue until it stuck Connelly's wrist bone. There was no hard surface to make the bullet fragment. Marina Oswald has stated that Oswald would sit on their porch after dark and repeatedly work the Mannlicher's action. In addition it is Posner's theory that Oswald opened fire earlier then previously believed. According to his theory Oswald took shot # 1 when right after the Lincoln made the left turn onto Dealey. There is a tree directly in front of the book depository and the car would appear for only a few seconds before disappearing beneath the branches. His evidence is on the Zapruder film: A young girl is running alongside the limo and stops, swivels her head back and up towards the upper floors of the book depository. What was she reacting to? This occurs earlier than when the 1st is generally supposed to have occured. In this time frame Oswald has over 8 seconds to make all three shots.

"What about all the witnesses who instinctively looked toward the "grassy knoll"

That's Oliver Stone's myth made fact. Posner collected all of the witness reports and the huge and vast majority of those who heard the shots reported they came from the book depository.

"after that famous head shot that explodes the entire right front quadrant of JFK's skull, which seems inconsistent with shooting from behind "

A fully jacketed bullet typically makes a small entry wound and a huge exit wound. What you see on the Zapruder film is the bullet exiting and taking a large piece of JFK's cranium with it.

"and 6 stories up?"

There were two book depository workers on the 5th floor right below Oswald. They were eating their lunches and watching the motorcade pass. They heard the 1st shot, the bolt being worked, the 2nd shot, the bolt being worked, and then the 3rd shot. They reported that the shots came from right above them on the 6th floor. Their statements are part of the public record.

All of the bullets and bullet fragments recovered were tested: They were all fired from Oswald's rifle and they were all from the same batch of bullets(The lead content and trace elements were identical). It is Oswald's signature on the form purchasing the rifle. Marina stated that Oswald kept the rifle in the garage of the house where she was staying. His normal routine was to stay in town during the week and only traveling to stay with Marina on the weekends. Oswald broke his routine and went to stay with Marina on a weeknight the night before the shooting. Oswald left his wedding ring on the bureau the next morning when he left Marina to go to work. The gentleman who gave Oswald a ride to work that morning reported that Oswald had a a long paper-wrapped package with him that Oswald said was "curtain rods". The police found this wrapping on the 6th floor after the shooting.

I can't recommend Posner's book more highly. All of the bullshit that the JFK conspiracy groupies have been pushing for decades aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Pete - thanks for weighing in. I could rebut all the things you point out, and I already knew all this info you are presenting, and much more, but this isn't the forum for it.

After reading about 70 of the Amazon book reviews on this, where many people find Posner to be adopting a strict Warren Commission party line, I have to remain quite skeptical; any attempt at serious convincing that adopts that party line is on shaky ground. The Warren Commission was mostly a joke, and yes, I've done research on it, 26 years ago, as a freshman in college.

In addition, Posner apparently was quite selective in presenting his facts.

And no, Oliver Stone did not make up the grassy knoll stuff; that question came up long ago.

I'll retire from this discussion now ....

Jeff,

Don't retire from the conversation. You posed the question, back up you're saying. More importantly don't read the reviews of a bunch of yahoos on Amazon.com. Read the book yourself. I also believed that there was something fishy about the assassination before I read it.

You can't fault Posner. He actually uses all the physical evidence and the eyewitness reports in his book. He footnotes everything. The people who were selective in using details while writing their books were the conspiracy buffs. The Warren commission report may be flawed, but it contains all of the leg work done by the investigators. They interviewed everyone in Dealey Plaza, while it was fresh in their minds.

Realistically, to overcome all of the physical evidence and eyewitness reports, a substantial portion of the Federal government would have had to have been in on it. Including, the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, US Marshals, the two pathologists at Walter Reed Hospital, and the Dallas Police. To gain what? Kennedy was a bigger cold warrior than Johnson. Bay of Pigs, the blockading of Cuba, and sending troops to Vietnam were his doing. He would never have abandoned the Vietnamese and the war would have ramped up just like it did under Johnson. The outcome might have been different though.

The two snipers in Virginia are being convicted on less evidence than exists on Oswald pulling the trigger on JFK.

JFK was larger than life for a substantial number of Americans - it should be no surprise that these people cannot believe that a loser like Oswald could take all that away. If Bobby had suceeded his brother, it may have been different. But LBJ never had a chance against the myth (and the hagiographers).

It is interesting that most conspiracy theorists are from the far right or the libertarian camp; with Dallas, they are almost exclusively leftish.

Actually, I'm quite pleased that all but nuts have restrained themselves from trying to kill the President, at least since JFK.

Despite the best efforts of the Secret Service, it wouldn't be that hard, for a skilled, determined individual.