October 4, 2004
CLOSING THE BARN DOOR AFTER THE HORSE HAS FLED
Christianity hangs in balance, leading theologian warns (Michael Valpy, Globe and Mail, October 4th, 2004)
For the churches representing the majority of Canadian Christians, legalization of same-sex marriage will be a sign of the end of Christendom, the 1,700-year-old notion that has defined government in the Western world as devoted to the enforcement of Christian values, says one of Canada's leading theologians.Those churches will be left feeling marginalized by the state -- a state they will no longer see as an expression of a Christian point of view and fulfilling certain Christian ideals, said Christopher Lind, director of the Toronto School of Theology, the federation of theological colleges affiliated with the University of Toronto.
It explains why a rope of fear runs through the churches' legal submissions to the Supreme Court, where hearings begin Wednesday on the constitutionality of the government's intention to authorize same-sex marriage.
There is fear that if, as widely expected, the court rules in favour of same-sex marriage and Parliament passes enabling legislation, churches will face persecution and discrimination in Canadian society for holding fast to the belief that God ordained marriage only for heterosexual couples.
From Roman Catholics and evangelical Protestants to Mormons, Muslims and Seventh Day Adventists among others, religious groups are also apprehensive that they may be stripped of their charitable status and other state benefits, penalized by public institutions, branded as hate-mongers and forced into accepting the legitimacy of same-sex unions.
It is the same fear that political scientists and theologians identify as driving the powerful conservative religious right in the United States -- a conviction that liberal, secular society is bent on erasing religion from public life.
Just figuring that out now, eh?
What a load of blather.
Losing tax privileges and special status is hardly the same as "the end of Christendom".
The Churches may be stronger once divorced from the State, anyhow.
Feeding at the public trough makes one dependent, like yestermorn's post about Canadian doctors getting paid not to prescribe medication.
"may be stripped of their charitable status and other state benefits,"
Why be dependent at all?
A somewhat hyperbolic article.
Posted by: M Ali Choudhury at October 4, 2004 8:59 AMOne day Christianity will be illegal - hate speech.
Posted by: Sandy P at October 4, 2004 12:45 PMOne day?
Sun Tzu's Art of War speaks a lot about preparing the ground before the war via covert ops, intelligence, and political manipulation of your enemy until when the time comes to start shooting, it's all over but the screaming.
You lull and maneuver the enemy into a position that it is impossible for him to win or resist effectively -- only stand there goggle-eyed and watch your weapon coming at him. You have forced him to compromise and compromise until you have it all and he has nothing.
(And, as has been done since Paris in 1789, after the screaming and the "regrettable but necessary" statistics, then:
"I have a vision of the future, chum.
The Workers' flats in fields of soya beans
Tower up like silver pencils, score on score;
And surging millions hear the challenge come
From microphones in communal canteens:
'No Right! No Wrong! All's Perfect, Evermore!'"
Cue the Star Trek theme for (pause and gasp with orgasmically-wet lips) "THE FEDERATION!")
And remember, Comrades, "hate crime" is only what the OTHER guy says or does. Never you.
Posted by: Ken at October 4, 2004 4:49 PMSandy P:
Not in the US.
Nor in Europe, although Christianity may change there to stay relevant.
Ken:
What's being done to prepare the ground for the elimination of religion in the US ?
The Federation will contain, and be made up of, religious people.
Right now the most likely societies to expand into space are Americans and Chinese, both of whom are highly religious.
Michael:
Most Chinese are atheists. The rest are Buddhists, which are followers of a religion which is essentially atheistic.
Posted by: Vince at October 4, 2004 7:57 PMThe Chinese are Buddhists, Animists, and Christians.
Buddhism is 180° removed from atheism, although it can be difficult to see that from a Christian or Muslim perspective.
Posted by: Michael Herdegen at October 5, 2004 1:36 AMMichael:
You forgot that the majority of Chinese are atheists. That some of them may be Buddhist, Animists and Christian--and persecuted for that--may well be true, but they are still the minority even though a minority in China may look huge considering the size of that country's population.
Posted by: Vince at October 5, 2004 7:43 AMMichael:
A libertarian is not an atheist either. He believes in God...it is just that he believes that God is himself.
Posted by: Vince at October 5, 2004 7:50 AMYou're a funny guy, Vince, but your last point is plumb wrong.
You've been meeting the wacko Libertarians, who comprise a large part of the party, but don't by any means control it.
Posted by: Michael Herdegen at October 5, 2004 3:04 PMVince--
Where do you get the statistic that the Chinese are mostly atheists?
Posted by: Brian (MN) at October 5, 2004 3:28 PMMichael:
If the "wacko Libertarians" compromise a large part of the Party, doesn't that mean they control it? Yeah, I have met quite a few Libertarians who oppose drug legalization, including medical marijuana, but they are so few and so powerless.
Brian:
According to several sources, Christians make up 3-4% of the Chinese population, and Buddhists, Taoists and Muslims make up 1-2% of the population. Everyone else is classified as atheist. Since China's population is close to a billion and a half, it would not be surprising to run into a whole lot of non-atheists in China, but the atheists still rule.
Posted by: Vince at October 5, 2004 5:23 PMThey will be better off, if they are pursecuted.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 5, 2004 5:58 PMSince Tao is the popular religion of the countryside, your stats must be very, very wrong, Vince.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at October 6, 2004 1:35 AMWhy?
Posted by: Vince at October 6, 2004 4:08 PMBecause way more than 2% of Chinese are country folk
Posted by: Harry Eagar at October 6, 2004 7:46 PMBut the stats say that only an estimated 1-2% of the Chinese population practice Taoism. Who said that all of the rural Chinese practice Taoism?
Posted by: Vince at October 6, 2004 8:20 PMI do.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at October 7, 2004 4:42 PM