Boykin suffered a martyr's persecution because sometimes a spade needs to be called spade, regardless of how politically incorrect it may sound.

"He [Osman Atto] was a corrupt, evil warlord who was stealing from and robbing his own people. He was a man who worshipped graft, corruption, power and money. My reference to his God being an idol was not to Allah. My reference was to his worship of corruption, of power, of money. He was a thug. He was not a good Muslim."

For his criticism he got crucified and nearly drummed out of the Army.

It's a nice spin, but I don't believe that's what Bill Boyken meant, at the time.

Also, what's the big deal ?
The Christian God is bigger, badder, and better than Allah.

Either that, or Allah doesn't manifest herself by materially helping her worshippers on Earth, or by guiding them mentally and spiritually to a better mortal life.

Whatever Boykin might have "meant" -- a formulation which, when used in this sort of context, is almost always a preface to either a condemnation or a humiliating back-and-fill -- Islam is not a religion, but a totalitarian ideology aimed at subjugating the world.

Anyone who's bothered to inform himself about Islam's tenets and teachings knows this. Anyone who hasn't is irrelevant.

Whatever General Boykin's PR needs might be, that is the reality of the thing. That is the nature of the creed to which Europe is steadily yielding. That is the orientation of the force to which our domestic custardheads demand we accommodate ourselves.

Just as with Nazism, just as with Communism, until it crushes Western Civilization or is crushed by it, Islam is the enemy. It must receive no quarter, whether practical or ideological, for you mat rest assured that it will offer none.

Francis:

That's all obviously untrue of Shi'ism, which quite resembles Judaism & Christianity. And Sunni Islam will be easily enough Reformed--it is the basis for a decent society with some tweaking, something untrue of the other isms.

Islam worships "Allah", formerly known as "Hubal", the top god among the 360 worshipped by the Arab pagans of Mecca at the Kaba. The story of the development of Islam as a reaction to the monotheism of Chritianity and Judaism is enlightening. Islam is to monotheism as Communism is to classical economics, an almost complete but inevitable misinterpretation. Islam and it tenets which revolve around the here and now is a dead end. It's views regarding the natural world are found in its holy scripture and written in such a manner that interpretation as metaphor is almost impossible. The contradictions are enormous and nearly impossible to understand or justify. it is a metaphysical system locked in a time warp that is at odds with the idea of free inquiry and the accumulated knowledge of the past millenieum. It must return the world to the age of darkness or die.

Tom:

That's just silly. Separate Mosque from State--as Shi'ism was forced to and as an Ataturk forced in Turkey--and it's a perfectly adequate basis for decent society.

oj-

Have you read the Koran? Islam is a total system. To seperate Mosque from state is un-Islamic. Attaturk's reforamtion was a band-aid, a stopping action. Iran is run by Shi'ites.

Indonesia, Tunisia, Morocco, Bangladesh, etc.--more Muslims live in democracies than in totalitarian states.

You're right though, the new Islam will be un-Islamic. Big deal.

oj- If you haven't read the Koran, you should. Islam is a cult. When the world was a much bigger place it's influence on the civilized west was minimal, not any more.

Christianity will influence Islam more than vice versa just as it Reformed Judaism--it'll be just another protestantism soon.

Tom that's got to be the most ignorant thing I've ever seen written about Islam and I've seen plenty.

Ali-

Just my opinion based on my somewhat limited research. Please enlighten me, if you would be so kind.

"Mohammed had not only religious doctrines descend from heaven and placed in the Koran, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and scientific theories. The Gospels in contrast, speak only of the general relations of men to God and among themselves. Outside of that they teach nothing and oblige nothing to be believed. That alone, among a thousand other reasons is enough to show that the first of these two religions cannot dominate for long in enlightened and democratic times, whereas the second is destined to reign in these centuries as in all others."

"A religion which became more insistent in details, more inflexible, and more burdened with small observances during the time that men became more equal would soon find itself limited to a band of fanatic zealots in the midst of a skeptical multitude."

Hubal? WTF?

Muhammad never gave the pagan gods any credence at all and denounced them all as false.

And do you actually know any Muslims and how they conduct themselves in their daily lives?

I'm mystified by where the "burdened with small observances" thing comes from. Most of those are recommended but optional.

And anyone familiar with how much of the Quran actually concerns law would know it leaves a lot of room for interpretation by the ummah.

Not to mention a cursory look at the medieval period of Islam would reveal peoplelike Avicenna, Averroes,ibn Khaldun, al-Biruni and others who didn't seem overly persecuted for free inquiry.

Ali-

My concern is the Islamic emphasis on temporal, civil affairs. The growth and influence of extremist governments and the tolerance for tyranny by Islamists is real. My question is why?

The muslims I personally know are good, family people. The outcry against the extremist wing is nearly non-exisatent. Tolerance guided by love for fellow human beings regardless of their religious beliefs appears to be a non feature of Islam. The Koran, with all due respect, and in comparison with the Christian bible is riddled with sentiments which I found to be, frankly, ugly. The most curious feature of the book was it's misreporting of stories from the bible. That particular tendency is similar to cults of all kind.

It's the "hunker down and maybe this storm will pass us over .....eventually" mentality.

And how many Muslim countries are under extremist governments?

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sunni Iraq, Palestine,Syria... I suppose it all depends on what the definition of "extremist" is.