November 29, 2003
THEY GAVE US ENIGMA, WE GAVE THEM KATYN:
Those pesky Poles: In which old members offer new ones some lessons in negotiation (Charlemagne, Nov 27th 2003, The Economist)
[A]ll the huffing by current members of the EU about the need to think of the “European interest” would be more convincing if they were to apply the same principle to themselves. Where is the European interest in the Franco-German decision to trash the stability pact, simply because the French and Germans cannot control their budget deficits? Where is the European interest in France's dogged defence of the wasteful and protectionist common agricultural policy, which just happens to shovel huge wads of cash to French farmers? Where is the European interest in Britain's insistence on keeping its budget rebate, no matter what? Or in Spain's relentless determination to cling on to a disproportionate share of EU regional aid?The Poles, however, are newcomers, and relatively poor at that. As a result, they seem to be expected to mind their manners and just be grateful for all the EU money that will soon head their way. Even when current members try to sound sympathetic, their attitude is deeply condescending. Viscount Etienne Davignon, a Belgian former vice-president of the European Commission, and the epitome of the EU's great and good, says: “We have to remember that the Poles have only recently regained their national sovereignty and are new to the European Union. It takes many years of membership before people really understand how Europe works.” The notion that the Poles and the other seven central European countries that are joining next year (along with Malta and Cyprus) might just possibly have ideas that are as valid as those of the six “founder members” is apparently too fanciful to contemplate.
The fact is that the entry of Poland into the EU is profoundly unsettling to traditionalists. European integration began with Franco-German reconciliation after the second world war. The EU's main institutions are still strung out along the Franco-German borderlands, in Brussels, Luxembourg and Strasbourg. For French and German politicians, it is axiomatic that their relationship should remain the fulcrum around which the EU revolves. But enlargement will shift the centre of gravity. The decision of the Poles (and most other central Europeans) to take a pro-American line over Iraq went down particularly badly in France, prompting Jacques Chirac's now infamous remark that the newcomers had “missed a good opportunity to shut up”. Now that the constitutional negotiations are reaching a crunch, the Poles are again being invited to “shut up”. So far, they have declined the invitation. How very shocking.
Given the historic ties between Poland and America, and the debt we owe them, why not offer them trade and mititarly alliance with us instead? Posted by Orrin Judd at November 29, 2003 11:18 AM
At the time of Katyn, we didn't have Enigma.
Actually, they gave that to the French, you know.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at November 29, 2003 3:21 PMWrong, like clockwork, whenever Stalin is concerned:
"July 24, 1939 is the day to be remembered forever. Cryptoanalysts and heads of the Intelligence Services from France and Great Britain arrived in Pyry, near Warsaw, to receive the Enigma replicas along with all the cryptoanalyst information Poland gathered."
http://home.us.net/~encore/Enigma/enigma.html
"Most of the victims in Katyn forest were Polish army reservists -- lawyers, doctors, scientists and businessmen -- who were called up to active service following the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939. But instead of fighting the Germans, about 15,000 Polish officers found themselves prisoners of the Red Army, which had occupied eastern Poland under the terms of a secret Moscow-Berlin treaty.
In the spring of 1940, about 4,500 of these officers were taken by their Soviet captors to the Katyn forest. Most were then gagged, bound, shot once in the head and buried on the spot. The other Polish POWs were taken to other locations, where many of them were also executed. The mass liquidation killed off much of Poland's intelligentsia and facilitated the Soviet takeover of the nation."
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/01/spotlight/
Posted by: oj at November 29, 2003 4:11 PMThe notion that the Poles and the other seven central European countries that are joining next year (along with Malta and Cyprus) might just possibly have ideas that are as valid as those of the six founder members is apparently too fanciful to contemplate."
One of the beauties of the US Constitution is that a newly admitted state is equal to all the existing states, in both theory and practice.
Posted by: Raoul Ortega at November 29, 2003 5:13 PMRaoul:
More equal even, in that they'd get two Senators even if a tenth the size of CA.
Posted by: oj at November 29, 2003 5:23 PMThat was a pretty inclusive "we," Orrin. The US didn't get Enigma until later.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at December 1, 2003 7:12 PMYou mean like until we were in the war and needed it?
Posted by: oj at December 1, 2003 10:04 PMWell, yeah, but by then there wasn't any Poland. We got it from the Brits, not without some difficulty.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at December 2, 2003 5:20 PMThe Brits were actually in the war--they covered up Katyn too. Of course, after the war your boy FDR and Churchill sold Poland down the river.
Posted by: oj at December 2, 2003 6:48 PMOne of the ironies of history. Britain and France went to war, on paper, to save a corrupt, incompetent tyranny.
France dropped out and Britain decided that game wasn't worth the candle, but came out with Germany in eclipse, at least for a time, which was worth a lot of candles.
The Poles were in an unhappy situation in 1939, but digging their own grave and jumping in (Teschen) hardly earned them any points with the free world.
Maybe they should have cut a deal east or west instead. Losing one in three of your people and ending up under a dictator was the worst possible bargain, wasn't it?
Posted by: Harry Eagar at December 2, 2003 9:09 PMNo. France got the worse by collaborating. They lost their soul.
Posted by: oj at December 2, 2003 10:44 PM