July 2, 2007

EV...:

The N.R.A.’s Senate (NY Times, 7/02/07)

Given a choice last week between helping local police combat illegal gun trafficking and helping the National Rifle Association protect rogue gun dealers responsible for arming violent criminals, the Senate Appropriations Committee made the outrageously wrong choice.

Bowing to the politically powerful gun lobby, the committee set back the effort spearheaded by Mayor Michael Bloomberg and leading law enforcement groups to repeal the reckless Tiahrt amendment. First passed in 2003, it denies police and local governments access to essential information about guns used to commit crimes.

In a bipartisan collapse to the N.R.A., the Senate committee, by a vote of 19 to 10, also approved new language that actually threatens law enforcement officials with jail time if they dare use federal gun-purchasing data to try to systematically address the problem of gun trafficking.


The Democratic Party that gets to govern a country that's realigned to the Right is going to be reactionary at "best," and "conservative" at worst.

Posted by Orrin Judd at July 2, 2007 7:34 AM
Comments

Every word in that article is a lie, as the old saying goes, including "and" and "the."

Do I have to spell it out? Again?

Look, the fact that a dealer's customer's are dirt balls does not mean that the dealer is a bad guy, only that his clientle are not of the highest social strata.

Let me illustrate. There is a gun shop in my county which sells almost all the "crime guns" not stolen or bought illegally. Is so happens that the store is located in a rough river town where most of the caucasian hoodlums in the county reside. If that were enough this shop is the closest to the low income/minority projects and neighborhoods.

We investigated them when I worked in the County D.A.s office: squeaky clean. I bought my Israeli-made Charles Daly from them. Squeaky clean, as far as I could, tell--also willing to go through extra trouble to find a gun most of the jobbers weren't carrying. They are still there, squeaky clean and selling guns to rough people in a rough town.

There is nothing the shop couod do to not be selling the majority of the guns used in crimes, short of profiling its customers, something like, "Tatoo, no, necktie, yes, Latino, no, Jew yes, young woman, no, mature gentlerman, yes,"--that sort of thing.

Of course that would be invidious discrimination. You have to understand how the Instant Records Check works. Every gun transactiuon by a licensed dealer is cleared by the police in advance, usually while the customer is waiting in the store. It takes a very few minutes, in most instances.

The dealer calls in the information about the buyer and the gun, driver's license number, serial number, that sort of thing. The state police or whoever run the information, and the police issue an approval number which goes on all the forms. No number, no gun. End of story.

Now look at the public accomodation/civil rights aspect of this scenario. The dealer has the police transaction authorization number. Now what is he supposed to do, say, "We don't sell to your kind around here?"

So the Bloomburg gang want the trace data so as to be able to persecute dealers who sell to the less well off or whose shops are in the rougher parts of town.

This is all part of the gun-grabber salami-slicing grand plan. Make guns harder to get, reduce the number of dealeers, drive the prices up, make it harder, less convenient, more intimidating to buy a gun. Reduce the numbers of average (or below-average) people owning guns, and sooner or later those few better-off experts who are still shooting willbe all alone and the right to keep and bear arms will fall.

Posted by: Lou Gots at July 2, 2007 4:38 PM

Every word in that article is a lie, as the old saying goes, including "and" and "the."

Do I have to spell it out? Aqain?

Look, the fact that a dealer's customer's are dirt balls does not mean that the dealer is a bad guy, only that his clientle are not of the highest social strata.

Let me illustrate. There is a gun shop in my county which sells almost all the "crime guns" not stolen or bought illegally. Is so happens that the store is located in a rough river town where most of the caucasian hoodlums in the county reside. If that were enough this shop is the closest to the low income/minority projects and neighborhoods.

We investigated them when I worked in the County D.A.s office: squeaky clean. I bought my Israeli-made Charles Daly from them. Squeaky clean, as far as I could, tell--also willing to go through extra trouble to find a gun most of the jobbers weren't carrying. They are still there, squeaky clean and selling guns to rough people in a rough town.

There is nothing the shop couod do to not be selling the majority of the guns used in crimes, short of profiling its customers, something like, "Tatoo, no, necktie, yes, Latino, no, Jew yes, young woman, no"--that sort of thing.

Of course that would be invidious discrimination. You have to understand how the Instant Records Check works. Every gun transactiuon by a licensed dealer is cleared by the police in advance, usually while the customer is waiting in the store. It takes a very few minutes, in most instances.

The dealer calls in the information about the buyer and the gun, driver's license number, serial number, that sort of thing. The state police or whoever run the information, and the police issue an approval number which goes on all the forms. No number, no gun. End of story.

Now look at the public accomodation/civil rights aspect of this scenario. The dealer has the police transaction authorization number. Now what is he supposed to do, say, "We don't sell to your kind around here?"

So the Bloomburg gang want the trace data so as to be able to persecute dealers who sell to the less well off or whose shops are in the rougher parts of town.

This is all part of the gun-grabber salami-slicing grand plan. Make guns harder to get, reduce the number of dealeers, drive the prices up, make it harder, less convenient, more intimidating to buy a gun. Reduce the numbers of average (or below-average) people owning guns, and sooner or later those few better-off experts who are still shooting willbe all alone and the right to keep and bear arms will fall.

Posted by: Lou Gots at July 2, 2007 4:52 PM

Every word in that article, is a lie, as the old saying goes, including, "and" and "the."

Trace data does not show that a dealer has done anything wrong, only that authorities are interested in guns he has sold. If a gun is of interest, law enforcement can look up the serial number in the records of the manufacturer. Those records will show thansfer to a wholsaler, then to a retail dealer, then to the first customer.

The gun-grabbers wuod like to use trace reords to persecute dealers whose shops and/or customers are located in less-affluenbt neighborhoods. This is unfair, because having rogue customers does not make one a rogue dealer, as long as the law is being followed.


Let me illustrate. Most of the "crime guns" sold in my county come on particular shop. This shop happens to be in a high-crinme location, a rough river town, home to many of the county's caucasian hoodlums, and near by to low-income and minority neighborhoods.

This dealer is frequently accused of being a "rogue." Not so. Back when I was in the D,a,'s office, we investigated them (it is run by two women) for that very reason. Squeaky clean they turned out to be. I bought a gun from them years later,ansomewhat hard to come by Israeli-made Charles Daly .45 no other dealer would bother to locate for me. Again, squeaky clean, as far as I could tell.

To understand this one has to know how the instant recors check system works. The dealer telephone in the data on the gun and on the prospective purchaser to the state police or whomever. The numbers are rum, normally is a few munutes with the customer standing bym and an approval number is issued. The police, not the dealer makes the decision to approve the sale.
No approval number, no gun. End of story.

Now once that number is issued, the matter is out of the dealers hands. We cannot expect, nor would we countenance, the dealer engaging in his own scheme of profiling. It could not be, "Tattoo, no; necktie, yes; Hispanic, no, Jew, yes; young woman, no, mature gentleman, yes"--that sort of thing.

Thus the trace data is sought for the illegitimate purpose of harassing honest dealers whose only failing is to be located in a less affluent area.

Posted by: Lou Gots at July 2, 2007 5:42 PM

Lou:

I think even Carolyn Maloney got that message.

The Dems aren't going to repeat 2000 again, and they don't want to lose the House and any Senate seats over guns. Until and unless John Conyers becomes Speaker, gun control will remain dormant. And the NYT is just going to have to live with it.

Posted by: ratbert at July 2, 2007 6:13 PM
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