May 17, 2007

ON THE OTHER HAND... (via mc):

Lawmakers strike deal on immigration (JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, 5/17/07, Associated Press)

Key senators and the White House reached agreement Thursday on an immigration overhaul that would grant quick legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S. and fortify the border.

The plan would create a temporary worker program to bring new arrivals to the U.S. A separate program would cover agricultural workers. New high-tech enforcement measures also would be instituted to verify that workers are here legally. was the incessant bitching by the Right, which dampened mid-term turnout, that hands W this final Reaganesque jewel in his crown.

Posted by Orrin Judd at May 17, 2007 1:35 PM

So says a guy who lives in a state that's what, 99% white?????

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 3:39 PM

Yay. Will those illegal aliens who were planning to shoot Americans at Fort Dix also get a chance to become real pro-family Americans too?

Posted by: Just John at May 17, 2007 3:40 PM

What do you suppose the "New high-tech enforcement measures" will be? That sounds like blather put in to reassure people who are going to be angry about this deal.

Posted by: Brandon at May 17, 2007 3:59 PM

The conservative and even moderate GOPers are not happy about this. While acknowledging that some sites are overblown about this (NRO) this does have the potential to really hurt the GOP in '08. And with McCain's name all over this it doesn't help him either.

Posted by: AWW at May 17, 2007 4:26 PM

They don't need our votes, those 12-20 million will be voting for them instead.

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 4:32 PM


Nano-chips in the refried beans? Microchips in the salsa? Filaments in the tamales?

Posted by: ratbert at May 17, 2007 4:40 PM

If the conservatives are serious about the enforcement provisions, they would work the details instead of whinging.

Then they'd make sure that these immigrants learn english so they can talk them into registering Republican which, as OJ mentions, is the party for people who work and go to church.

If Kyl's for it, it's fine with me and I am a conservative Republican from his state. If it goes into law it will have bipartisan support and should not be an election issue.

The only thing that worries me about the bill is that amnesty seems to cheat the people who follow the legal process. However, the solution is that we probably need to let more of those people in too to compensate.

Chain migration of family members can probably be enforced but most of the social ills associated with it by the conservative immigration restrictionists are actually problems with 'multiculturalism' more than immigration itself.

As a Hawk on foreign policy, I like the idea that there will soon be 400mm of us with a 20 Trillion dollar GDP.

Posted by: JAB at May 17, 2007 5:51 PM

Sad to see so much bile from so many on the right over this. Having spent the better part of my life arguing with liberal friends and relations that the GOP is not the party of racists etc, I'm beginning to wonder if they weren't right after all.

Maybe those so unhappy with this deal can form their own party. "Know-nothings" is available if y'all need a name. Those remaining in the GOP will take the immigrants.

Posted by: Jim in Chicago at May 17, 2007 6:29 PM

The immigrants will not be taking the GOP.

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 6:44 PM

It's not color, it's philosophy.

Mecha is dancing in the streets tonight.

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 6:48 PM


Let MEChA goons have a party. Then we can watch in laughter when those same MEChA goons complain about the "manana" attitude their Latino brothers have when time comes to bring about Aztlan.

This is hard for me to say, but most of my fellow righties got what they deserved today. Can't say I really feel sorry for them, after the way some of them treated their fellow righties who were willing to make this sort of deal.

So, will they now take their ball and go home?

Posted by: Brad S at May 17, 2007 7:07 PM

Reaganesque is right. As in "Simpson-Mazzoli", which Ronnie signed because it was supposed to fix things so that we wouldn't be having this fiasco two decades later.

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at May 17, 2007 7:07 PM

So, will they now take their ball and go home?

President Hillary! is counting on it.

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at May 17, 2007 7:10 PM

The extra hundred million Americans are worth a few elections.

Posted by: oj at May 17, 2007 7:39 PM

Neither of us will be around to see who's right, OJ.

The Evita bugaboo won't work, Raoul, it's getting so one can't tell the difference.

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 8:59 PM

--Then we can watch in laughter when those same MEChA goons complain about the "manana" attitude their Latino brothers have when time comes to bring about Aztlan.--

All they need to do is vote once every 2 years.....

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 9:05 PM

Via Rantburg:

"Read the leaked version of the bill. Its ASTOUNDING the concessions that are made.

It entitles them to financial aid for college, establishes a right to in state tuition, allows them to receive welfare and medicare/medicaid, and ll that without being required to go back.

There are even MORE goodies in the bill, including free federal aid for their defense if they are put on trial for lying on their immigration paperwork, and a mandate that the judges for immigration must have served as a lawyer FOR illegals for at least 3 years bofre they will consider him/her for a judge position.

Now, Steve, what do you think?

This deserves a veto and a filibuster."

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 9:14 PM

We are around to see that your side has been wrong every time.

Posted by: oj at May 17, 2007 9:58 PM

It's always been about color (ethnicity). It doesn't even matter which color.

Posted by: oj at May 17, 2007 10:03 PM

Requiring them to go back? Do you think it's a kids game and they should have to toe an imaginary line? They're fellow citizens, treat them with dignity.

Posted by: oj at May 17, 2007 10:12 PM

Yeah, that's why I sent a contribution to Michael Steele and will send one to Bobby J.

Mebbe you should move from your lily-white state to AZ or TX.

Reid's even bypassing the Judiciary committee????

Well, sovereignty's certainly been redefined.

--We are around to see that your side has been wrong every time.--

Because it's working so well in Europe????

Posted by: Sandy P at May 17, 2007 10:40 PM

An immigration bill won't be a jewel in Bush's crown if the Democrats win the White House in 2008. Does this bill make that more or less likely?

There were lots of political reasons to rush the bill, but none of them were any good for the Republicans. More thoughtful observers might wonder why the GOP always winds up on the losing end of party-splitting issues & debates. For a small example, the Dems in the House are going to put labor standards and requirements in the next round of free-trade deals (attempting to force US union rules overseas). Will the GOP get these removed at conference? Not a chance.

Sure, reflexive opposition to "immigration" is wrong, is anti-American, and is akin to the hysteria over fluoridation. But there is no confidence anywhere with respect to immigration - it is probably the brightest example of governmental incompetence and bureaucratic sin. The Democrats like it that way - they can build (and co-opt) another victimized class.

Somedays I think the best answer would be to just annex the northern third of Mexico. After all, it worked for Polk.

Posted by: jim hamlen at May 18, 2007 12:03 AM

Yes, it worked very well with Europeans, though nativists opposed each cohort that came here.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 6:21 AM

It is not something that can be done competently. Americans wouldn't tolerate "competence."

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 6:22 AM

Yeah! On step closer to a real peasant class we can use against the middle!!! If you thought class envy and class warfare was here before you haven't seen anything yet. Finally, the rubes, rednecks and working class losers are going to get just what they deserve.

Posted by: OJ's Honest Brother at May 18, 2007 8:11 AM

Not "worked" OJ, workING.

By some accounts, the race war has already started in LA and mebbe Vegas.

Whoopee! We're going back to the future with "Beirut by the Lake."

Posted by: Sandy P at May 18, 2007 8:55 AM

One of the few voices on the Right, other than Orrin, who is talking sense on this issue is the Anchoress. Two posts (1 and 2) of hers are worth a read.

Her posts illustrate as well the danger that the so-called conservative voices re immigration face -- driving Catholics from the Republican party.

Posted by: Jim in Chicago at May 18, 2007 9:05 AM

We don't get much mass immigration from Europe anymore. We already got the Germans, Irish, Czechs, Poles, Italians, Jews, etc. Each of which groups were likewise opposed by the Know Nothings.

The Latino gangs will win the mob wars--they have demographics on their side.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 9:06 AM

The crackers don't actually deserve the improvement to the culture that the Latinos bring, but the beauty of immigration is that we don't have to deserve it to reap the benefits.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 9:08 AM

The "crackers", as OJ endearingly dubs them, just torpedoed McCain's presidential candidacy, which was already on a creaking respirator. I actually agree with the Arizona grump on immigration, but it's nice to see him crash and burn. I don't want that senile temper-tantrum-baby playing with the nukes.

Romney probably benefits the most, because he will yelp against the deal. But I don't think immigration matters enough to most people to give him a huge boost. It does matter to a lot of those "crackers", who will just love voting against the Arizona coot in the GOP primaries. McCain's nomination chances, already barely animate, have now croaked well and truly.

Posted by: Casey Abell at May 18, 2007 10:03 AM

Jim Hamlen
"hysteria over fluoridation"

The John Birch Society opposed the fluoridation of public water supplies on the grounds that it is an involuntary mass medical treatment that violates individual rights. Socialized medicine has followed as predicted. Futhermore it has sapped and impurified all of our precious bodily fluids as evidenced by the use of insulting terms like "rubes, rednecks, working class losers" and "crackers" by Oj's Honest Brother and OJ. Realizing the sarcastic nature of the remarks why not make reference to the "nappy headed" minority who really will suffer from opening the border to the new peasant class? Cowardice perhaps?

Jim of Chicago

Shame if Catholics should abandon the Republican coalition for such a reason. I realize numerous anecdotes don't make data, but of the 13 Mexicans and Central Americans employed by me, 5 attend Assembly of God Church (holy rollers to you) and one is Jehovah witness. I doubt such an issue has occurred to the Protestant or Catholics who oppose illegal immigration.

Posted by: h-man at May 18, 2007 11:18 AM

What a bunch of whiners "conservatives" are on the immigration issue. Appalling.

Aztlan! Really? Why would Mexicans want to re-create Mexico here? So they can emigate to Canada later?

If the "Right" wants to pout and scream, they better be ready for the political wilderness.

Posted by: Bob at May 18, 2007 11:19 AM


"The Race" in fact does want to re-create Mexico (Aztlan) here. Have you got an explanation for their irrationality? Or are you saying that "The Race" is merely a figment of our imagination?

Posted by: h-man at May 18, 2007 11:26 AM

Bob, why don't you translate their founding slogan?

Posted by: Sandy P at May 18, 2007 12:08 PM

And couple this w/the Akaka bill which is being resurrected.

Posted by: Sandy P at May 18, 2007 12:08 PM

Indeed, American Latinos are even making the Catholic Church Evangelical. It's just another benefit.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 12:27 PM

The people who hate Mexicans aren't voting Mormon.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 12:31 PM

Mecha has higher name recognition on the kooky Right than with Mexican immigrants. Fear of Mecha is akin to fretting the Jews make motzah out of Christian babies.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 12:31 PM

It's like thinking all right-wingers are trying to incite RAHOWA.

Posted by: Bryan at May 18, 2007 2:16 PM

Sandy and h-man: I meant the mass of Mexican immigrants. Yes, there is a professional "activist" group that suppports Aztlan but it is hardly on the verge of triumph. Many Americans oppose the Iraq War, does that mean they all are Stalinists who support ANSWER?

Mexicans come here for a better life, why would they want to re-create the life they ran away from? It doesn't make sense.

Posted by: Bob at May 18, 2007 2:34 PM

Yeah, I agree that Romney won't be the main beneficiary of McCain's political suicide. Giuliani will pick up part of that vote, Thompson some, Romney a smaller slice.

But McCain is dead, dead, dead. Not that he doesn't look it already.

Posted by: Casey Abell at May 18, 2007 2:46 PM

Giuliani the nativist choice? Good one.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 3:08 PM

Bob: Because they still consider themselves Mexicans, not Americans. They've been quite straightforward about it: they're here to get American money and send it back to Mexico, not become Americans themselves. They're not interested in assimilation, though they'll gladly accept the magic Z-card that makes it more difficult for them to be prevented from helping their home country.

The illegal aliens who were going to attack Fort Dix were definitely not here for a better life, and were hoping to change this country into something more like their own. This grand idea that all illegal immigration is wonderful leads directly to the idea that as long as a terrorist is an illegal alien, we're fine with him wandering into America (unless it's by plane).

Posted by: Just John at May 18, 2007 4:53 PM

They stay and their kids are unhyphenated Americans. Heck, the micks still have St. Patrick's day and sent money to the IRA until last week. And we all know the Jews have that dual loyalty thing... The slanders never change, just the victims.

Posted by: oj at May 18, 2007 6:25 PM

Just John: The kids are Americans.

Muslims in Fort Dix are not whom we are talking about, are we? Plus, should we kick out Italians because of the Mafia? 99.999999999999999999% of illegals are not terrorists. Raids on packing plants and walls will not keep terrorists out. Nice strawman you built though.

Posted by: Bob at May 18, 2007 9:48 PM
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