February 28, 2007
O. W. HOLMES WAS RIGHT:
Can the Term "Guys" Refer to Women and Girls? (Heather Gehlert, 2/28/07, AlterNet)
Going out to eat with my father is always a tense affair. For the five or ten minutes it takes from the time the host or hostess seats us to the time our server comes to take our order, I sit quietly, feeling anxious and wondering how our waiter or waitress will greet us.Will she say, "How are you all doing today?" Or, "What can I get you folks to drink?" If we're near our hometown in the rural Midwest, there is a good chance she'll say the latter, but, more often than not, we hear: "Hi, my name is Jamie, and I'll be taking care of you guys today. Our specials this afternoon are smoked salmon, parmesan-crusted tilapia ..."
"Excuse me," my dad cuts in, his eyes narrowing to a glare, "but I only see one guy here."
My stomach drops and I stare at the table in front of me, trying not to roll my eyes. The lecture never takes more than a minute, but it's still excruciating.
On rare occasion, a waiter or waitress will argue back, saying "guys" is a gender-neutral term. But, most of the time, he or she just stands very still, jaw dropped, looking stunned.
Because this exchange never leads to a thoughtful discussion of gender and language, I long ago dismissed it as one of my dad's quirks -- a one-person tirade to laugh at and let go of. Besides, one of my father's biggest heroes is Bill O'Reilly -- not exactly a portrait of feminist ideals.
Yet, for whatever reason, now that my dad and I live in different states and I see him only once or twice a year, I'm noticing how often men and women use the phrase " you guys" to refer to both sexes. It happens in restaurants, at council meetings -- even in grade-school classrooms.
And so, a voice in the back of my head is starting to say, Maybe he has a point. Maybe this isn't an arbitrary battle over an arbitrary word.
Imagine how often their food gets spit upon? Posted by Orrin Judd at February 28, 2007 7:32 AM
Guys works for me although I have a Danish friend who reacts the same way as the author's father.
Posted by: erp at February 28, 2007 10:10 AM"Imagine how often their food gets spit upon?"
Hah, I was wondering the same thing while I was reading that. Don't be a jerk to your waiter or your nurse. This lady's father sounds like a real pain-in-the-tucchus. Bet he's a lousy tipper too.
Posted by: Bryan at February 28, 2007 1:27 PMIn most Latin-based languages, words for groups take the masculine form if there is a single male present. Amigos unitados! Ensemble mes amis! Think of it as the latest international test.
Who was it, Rita Moreno, with her "Hey you guyyyysssss!" She probably started it all.
Posted by: RC at February 28, 2007 1:57 PMIt's an interesting issue. We may sympathize with linguistic purity, and join in exercising a conservative restraint on shifting usages.
However, the use of "guys" in a gender-neitral way is well established in colloquial speech, and is actually consistent with the old English-language rule of masculine preference. Thus words such as "men" or "mankind" stand for all of humanity.
For all that, correcting a stranger's choice of words under the above circumstances is uncalled for.
Posted by: Lou Gots at February 28, 2007 1:59 PMHere's a little experiment for any wait-person to try...
The next 10 groups of three or more people he or she adresses at the table hear her say: "Hi, my name is Jamie and I'll be taking care of you girls today..Our specials this afternoon are...."
I predict that the combined tips from those 10 groups to the wait-person would be less than $3.00.
Regardless of the sex of the diners.
Posted by: John J. Coupal at February 28, 2007 9:07 PMJohn, you're right. Girls don't like to be called girls, or ladies, or ... ? How does a waitperson address a table of distaff homo sapiens that won't offend them? D*mned if I know.
Posted by: erp at March 1, 2007 12:49 PM