Great, and only about four more wars to go.

I don't know why we would expect such a convenient reformation from the Arabs. We were never able to induce one among the native American Indians. They too had been slaughtering each other sporadically for generations, visited the same slaughter on us when we arrived, proved impervious to inducements to cease, and eventually stopped only when powerless and on the verge of being finally wiped out.

Our entire GWOT policy is a repetition of our ultimately fruitless search for a better alternative way of dealing with native American Indians.

'Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' The Marines, of course, do remember; they refer to Iraq as 'Indian country'.

Indians had no culture to Reform. Muslims do.

ZF,

The Native Americans did acheive Reformation, and have actually been in the process of restoring their cultures. All under the auspices of the misbegotten Reservation system, fueled by casino money.

Sorry, I have differences with Our Fearless Leader on this one, but the analogy to aboriginals is absurd. Islam is a great religion and civilization that raised millions out of brutal chaos, spawned at least four great empires, is sophisticated theologically and ethically and obviously has a promising future. There are days I would like to take the easy route and say otherwise, but I'd be lying.

Peter B is making fun of us, right? The part about the "great religion and civilization," and all that.

Addressing the reformation of the native Americans, we should maintain that such a reformation proceeded quite well, with chronic backsliding from King Phillip's War, through all Indian wars and rebellions ghost dances, and all the rest. We must keep in mind that almost all of the Indian wars pitted first the unreformed Native Americans against the reformed.

What a strange kind of racism is the soft bigotry of lowered expectations which approves of leaving the lesser breeds to languish in their long Egyptian night.

Islam the religion may or may not have a promising future, but most Muslim societies have a tough row to hoe ahead of them. The Arabs and Persians are going to be struggling with abject poverty for decades.

Too bad that they've chosen to be sophisticated only theologically and ethically, and have shunned technological sophistication.

oj,
There will never be a "reformation" within Islam, as Islam would cease to exist should one occur. The Christian Reformation was still Christian even tho' no longer Catholic but to reform Islam they would have to deny the Prophet and at that they are not Muslims.
If you were to tell every Muslim on the planet Earth that Allah had a word, that if spoken by a true beleiver, would cause Israel and every Jew therein to cease to exist I'd venture that over 95% of them would want to know the word.
The fact that 60%+ of the non-Muslim French would want the word and close to 50% of the Democrat Party would also like it is irevelant.
As I've previously stated, I've joined the "frozen caveman" meme:
"Hey, all you elected politicians and media types and academics! I'm just an average guy. I wake up and I go to work and I have a family. I don't know much about Shi'ites, Sunnis, Wahhabis, Salafists, Imams, Mullahs, root causes, or the desire for democracy in the Muslim world or whatever. My mind can grasp these concepts just fine, the fact of the matter is I just don't care. I don't know much about all that stuff, but there is one thing I do know: when a bunch of "death-to-america" chanting yahoos want to destroy our culture, attack our cities, down our aircraft, and build nuclear weapons, then they are entitled to the business end of a B52."
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=081606B
Mike

With all the discussion here about an Islamic 'Reformation', I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention about the demographic crunch facing the Arabs - namely, the fact that within Islam, they will soon be a minority when compared with all the Muslims in India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Phillipines (as well as Iran).

If the Koran is legitimate only in Arabic (which to the Sunni Arabs is virtual dogma), how long before the backlash? And will the tribal customs of the Muslims in Asia be included, or excised?

We already know how much of the Arab world treats its Asian 'servants', even in America. Just last week, a Saudi couple in CO was convicted of assault and various other abuses of their maid. The Saudi woman got 4 and 1/2 years.

the Reformations have been rather easy outside the Arab world and within Shi'ism. Arab Sunni are lagging but will be caught up quickly.

Poverty just means they have a low cost workforce available to us.

Lou:

Hardly. Theirs is, in fact, the superior culture in many ways because not rotten with secularism. It'll be easier for them to Reform into full health than for any of the formerly Western nations to regress to decency.

Abner:

Too bad that they've chosen to be sophisticated only theologically and ethically, and have shunned technological sophistication.

Talk about joining the issue, as lawyers like to say. Let's hope future bloggers won't be writing that in reverse about us.

Lou:

Yes, worrying about all those disciplined Sioux fanatics and converts to Iroquois paganism keeps me up at night.

The future is humanists vs moralists and Islam is on our side.

The Protestant Reformation began as a theological (or at least ecclesiastical) debate. The core of the 'faith' was in question. Lots of customs, habits, traditions, etc. were swept aside by various 'reformers'.

What is the core of Islam? And what is to be 'reformed'?

That's the big advantage Islam has. The theology is right--it's just the politico-economic crollaries that need to be tweaked. That's why their Reformation is largely bloodless.

Bloodless????

By comparison to ours, certainly.

In the Protestant Reformation, an agreed authority was challenged.

Between the Shi'a and the Sunni, who is the authority? Who will declare the 'winner'?

If the 'reform' is not theological, then why bother with defending the Koran at all?

The states are. The people will.

Peter:

There's little chance of future bloggers having to lament the demise of theology and ethics in America. About Canada, you would know far better than I.

Do you see the Sunni/Shi'a divide as a racial issue (which almost seems to be how they view it) or a class issue (like the caste system)?

If it is just a family matter, then who is going to be the counselor/policeman?

Violence and intimidation are the foundations of Islam's rather earth-bound ideology.

Neither. It's like the divide between Protestants and Catholics. Protestants, like Shi'ites, had a huge advantage in developing the English model of democracy, protestantism, and capitalism, but Catholics were easy enough to Reform into it since nothing in their theology was contrary to it.