August 12, 2006


Bush wants end to Hizbollah "state within state" (Reuters, August 12, 2006)

President George W. Bush told Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora on Saturday that he hopes a new U.N. resolution will dismantle what he called Hizbollah's "state within a state" in southern Lebanon.

Since the Sunni and Christians have always refused to treat the Shi'a fairly, Southern Lebanon should be a state outside the state of Lebanon.

Posted by Orrin Judd at August 12, 2006 1:44 PM

No. The political equation within Lebanon has to change. Ironically, to benefit the Shia. Just like in Iraq. (Al-Sadr being the rough equivalent of Malcolm X.)

Posted by: ghostcat at August 12, 2006 2:12 PM

Exactly. And W is the Shi'a Lincoln.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 2:18 PM

"Since the Sunni and Christians have always refused to treat the Shi'a fairly..." What do you mean? The Shias are the majority, and Lebanon was under Syria's thumb in the last two decades. Hizbollahs are elected to their parliament, and are holding cabinet posts. Other politicians are basically useless. How are they not being treated fairly? Aren't they complaining too much? The Nazis with the help of native Europeans killed 6 million Jews because they were not being treated fairly by the Jews. Are the Shias scapegoating other ethnic groups to cover up their inadequacies? They complained about the Jews, after the Jews are gone for half a decade, they complain about other ethnic groups. In the last century thousands of Chinese risked their lives swimming shark-infested waters to sneak into Hong Kong to be ruled by the imperialistic Brits than to stay in China and ruled by the Chinese. That is, ordinary people don't care much about the ruler's ethnic background. Besides, where on earth is it written that the Shias should be ruling Lebanon just because they are the majority? Some secular Shias rather live under the current "democratic" regime than under an Iran-like Shia regime.

Posted by: ic at August 12, 2006 4:38 PM

Th Shia have been s[qu]at upon, largely because of their religious beliefs. In Lebanon and elsewhere. But they're not mature enough yet to get a driver's license. Eventually.

Posted by: ghostcat at August 12, 2006 4:47 PM

Just like we couldn't let the darkies vote.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 4:50 PM


It is precisely because what you assume must be true about how power is apportioned in Lebanon is completely false that you misunderstand the Shi'a grievances.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 5:04 PM

Not at all. But just like we couldn't let Huey Newton take over Oakland.

Posted by: ghostcat at August 12, 2006 5:26 PM

Blacks don't get to vote for or serve as mayor of Oakland?

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 5:31 PM

Taking over Oakland is hardly comparable to serving as its elected mayor.

Posted by: erp at August 12, 2006 6:05 PM

Not if their felons and/or are going to act like terrorists. The Shia are not going to be the allies you think they will be OJ. I think you have a big case of white man's burden or noble savage.

Posted by: tps at August 12, 2006 6:06 PM

Plenty of time to kill them then.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 6:36 PM

I truly hope to G*d that is not what will happen but I fear that's what we'll have to do.

Posted by: tps at August 12, 2006 6:49 PM

we won't--folks are just hysterical right now.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 7:01 PM

Hysterical... Just like those silly Jews who were claiming that horrible things were happening in eastern Europe...

Posted by: tps at August 12, 2006 8:28 PM

It wouldn't take that much provocation from Iran to turn the desert sands to glass.

Posted by: ghostcat at August 12, 2006 9:12 PM


The Germans systematically killed 6 million innocent Jews from their own and conquered populations. The Shi'a have killed a few with rather ineffectual defensive rocket attacks and taken many times that number of their own dead in an invasion. Pretending there's some necessity to visit genocide upon them is obviously a function of hysteria.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 9:23 PM

I suppose you're next going to claim that the Sunni are Darwinists.

Posted by: Joseph Hertzlinger at August 12, 2006 9:54 PM

Most people don't know diddly about the difference between the Sunni and the Shi'a. That works against us now, but it is a huge problem for them in the long run.

The Hezbollah rocket attacks are not defensive. The equivalent here would be an independent group of Mexican Indians in Sonora launching rockets into Tombstone or Tucson to kill 'whitey'. Under no circumstances could that be considered "defensive".

Is it better to fight at the point of the terror spear now, or wait until they set off a nuke somewhere (D.C., NYC, London, Paris, or Israel) and have only one response (to reply in kind to Tehran, Damascus, Mecca, Islamabad, and potentially other cities)? What President would want to make that decision? And what President could avoid making it, if two or three hundered thousand Americans were dead?

Posted by: ratbert at August 12, 2006 10:08 PM

At least the IDF makes the attempt to actually limit civilian causalities when they can. Hezbollah has been sending their defensive rockets filled with ball bearings. Its been a miracle that some of the hits Haifa and the other places have taken haven't been more bloody.

Posted by: tps at August 12, 2006 10:31 PM

Problem? We're liberating the Shi'a from the Med to Pakistan and dealing with their enemies for them. It may be because we didn't know the difference, but that's our "problem," not theirs.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 10:33 PM


No, but they aren't Messianic and have held temporal power since their revelation, so they'll have a less easy time democratizing. They're doing surprisingly well though.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 10:42 PM

Its not our frell'ing job to liberate them. Just to make sure they don't get it in their minds to bother us. If they do, then we come down on them like 10 tons of bricks.

Posted by: tps at August 12, 2006 10:42 PM

David always has the technological advantage.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 10:44 PM

Not our job, just our moral duty--it's what America does. we don't generally have much clue what'll follow, but it all works out in the end.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 10:50 PM

Moral duty generally means getting a lot of people killed. Somalia worked out great, didn't it?

Posted by: tps at August 12, 2006 10:57 PM

Somalia is working--would have been better if we'd helped impose this settlement ten years ago.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2006 11:03 PM

oj. BTW - Where is David? I just realized he hasn't been heard from lately.

Posted by: erp at August 13, 2006 7:37 PM

He retired.

Posted by: oj at August 13, 2006 7:45 PM

I'll miss him.

Posted by: erp at August 14, 2006 7:42 PM

So will we all.

Posted by: oj at August 14, 2006 7:47 PM