And therefore he's correct in writitng that to some degree, or at some level, knowingly or unconciously, they are all proterrorist and that is what is so infurianting about the neolites.

"but that they're indifferent to everyone but themselves."

Exactly. Which is why Lincoln said Douglas' statement that he didn't care whether slavery ws voted up or down was so reprehensible.

"it's not that they're pro-terror but that they're indifferent to everyone but themselves."

It's not that they are pro-terror, it is that they are anti-American.

They're anti-anti-terror. And maybe a few get a kick out of the cute beards.

Compare and contrast these two statements: "At no point did he say that blowing yourself up in a crowd of people was a good thing to do. What most outraged his interviewer was Kurt's disinclination to dismiss the terrorists as mentally ill. He said that suicide bombers believed that they were dying for a just cause and that he imagined they were probably brave people.," from the article cited, and "What has happened, though, is that it [the U.S. Government] has been taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d’etat imaginable. And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka “Christians,” and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities ....” from the In These Times Interview, Jan. 27, 2003.

So according to Kurt Vonnegut, the terrorists are brave men and not mentally ill, but the President and his administration are psychopathic dictators. The man is, as Orwell would say, objectively pro-terrorist and anti-American. He is a dilettante with pretensions of intellectual heft.

Posted by: jd watson at December 27, 2005 1:53 PM

It is a three-sided religious war, with the pagans siding with the C.J.'s against the Christians and Jews.

This sounds extreme, but a serious student of 19th and 20th Century thought should be able to see it.

The Nazis, the Communists, the Darwinists and now our present-day "left" are all expressions of Oedipal rage against the Father-God. To the "unhinged," as Michelle Malkin called them, C.J.-ism, or even the mass graves and human shredders of pre-liberation Iraq, are preferable to the President just because of Whom the President names as his favorite Philosopher.

Kurt Vonneghut is the guy Cindy Sheehan's going to move in and shack up with as soon as her divorce is final.

Funny part is, if the turbans ever succeed in setting off a dirty bomb or nuke, it'll be in one of the meccas of the left - Boston, NYC, Chicago, LA or San Francisco.

The won't be much blue left on the map then...

It'll have the same effect as Katrina did on New Orleans. Getting rid of many DemoRats, and turning many of the survivors into Republicans.

If the terrorists are all mentally ill, than American soldiers are mentally ill.
I think neither is true, but I think both are manipulated by power structures.
Vonnegut is not pro-terrorist. I love how every criticism of War on Terror policies, and disagreement over the exact characteristics of the nature of "terrorism", leads almost automatically for posters to make the leap of accusing the questioner of being a terrorist.
I don't support the terrorists, just like I don't support Bush. Vonnegut is the same way. Most people are the same way. People who sell guns would make you believe that violence is always necessary. Except the thing is, they're selling guns to the other side, too.
The essence of America is freedom; most importantly, freedom to criticize government. Trying to scapegoat those dissenters, who would be brave enough to point out what they see to be a pattern of mistakes of the exercise of power, amounts to nothing less than a self-enforced totalitarianism; Bush doesn't even need a secret police because everyone has been trained to cry "terrorist!"

Orrin: How do you justify accusing Vonnegut, and "The Left" of being indifferent to everyone to everyone but themselves?

Grog:
The secular left seeks comfort and avoids conflict. This is the epitome of self-centered indifference!

re: Meccas of the Left

Seattle. Don't forget Seattle.

(They've already shown an interest in the place, and it's not like there's not some choice targets around here.)

Grog: You are, self-evidently, free to criticize the government. That's one reason we know that your claim of impending fascist dictatorship is, hmmm, unripe. We are likewise free to respond.

I love how every criticism of War on Terror policies, and disagreement over the exact characteristics of the nature of "terrorism", leads almost automatically for posters to make the leap of accusing the questioner of being a terrorist.
I don't support the terrorists, just like I don't support Bush. Vonnegut is the same way.

No, he isn't.

Perhaps you ought to read some of what Vonnegut's said about America, and about terrorists, before you attempt to comment on it.

In Vonnegut's defense, some of what he's said has been so wildly wrong on the facts that it's entirely possible that he's simply senile.

Posted by: Michael Herdegen at December 28, 2005 4:03 AM

Listen: Kurt Vonnegut has come unstuck in mind.

It's not as if he was superglued to begin with...

slaughterhouse 5 is about dementia and schizophrenia, with the war only a back drop. you don't write like he does (and i do like his earlier works, as entertaining triffles) because you are extra creative. it's the media abusing a senile old man that's the real moral outrage.