They only care about winning debating points. Even here, note how they are laying the foundation for another round of "Bush lied": e.g.,"manipulating the debate", "selectively releasing data". I can just see Ford's letter to W. a year from now: "I trusted you and..."

The left does not want foreign money traced to it. .The Patriotic Act undid what it took the left decades to accommplish--detaching foreign intel from the FBI. That is their real objection to it. From John Reed's gift of 1 million rubles to Samuel Dickstein (D-NY) to the anti-nuke forces during the Cold War to, I suspect, Brian Becker and A.N.S.W.E.R., foreign cash has fueled the left in America. Jamie Gorelick and Reno made the wall between foreign Intel and the FBI higher during the Clinton years to protect the millions which were pouring into the DNC from the Russian mob and the PRC.

Liberals could care less about the so-called "civil liberities" of Joe Six-Pack. That has always been a cover.

What's exquisite about this is that it is largely an own goal (soccer metaphors seem especially appropriate here). The Patriot Act doesn't say a word about libraries and law enforcement doesn't seem to care very much about libraries. Moreover, most libraries in the US are public libraries, making this an argument about government agencies obtaining information voluntarily given to ... a government agency. But when the librarians association (far left wingbats) read the act, they saw a section that allowed the government to get business records and they started a scare campaign about how this could even include libraries.

Bingo! Exactly right. The idea that those people had been paid agents of the enemy for all those years is something out of 18th Century Polish history. It sounds so radical, so extreme, that we have to remind ourselves Gore got caught doing it and had to give some of the money back to the Chicom KGB.

Someday, after the Communist regime in Vietnam has gone the way of Communist regimes, we may know exactly what assurances of American inaction they received from the November Criminals before they dared to invade the Republic of Vietnam.

but Lou, we already know so much of what went on between the Soviets and the left in this country for almost the entire 20th century, yet the myths persist, not the facts. Same will be true when the Vietnam era and the Clinton years are documented.

There is so much corruption and it's so pervasive, that when a discussion of this topic is begun with a rare non-moonbat liberal, the sheer mass of data overwhelms and they simply cannot believe that practically everything they thought true, is in fact, false. The Intellectuals, by Paul Johnson is invaluable as a first read for potential ex-libs and from there it's an uphill slog to get up to speed.

Until we wrest control of the public schools and the media, I don't think the truth will ever penetrate our national consciousness.

the more interesting question is whether anybody uses the library for research anymore.

google (a leftist organization) is well along the way to killing libraries -- which have turned into hard left sanctuaries. funny how life works like that.

Ah, excuse me please. Before we go too far in cheering the readoption of this law, can we perhaps listen to Bob Barr and others, who want to know the extent of use of a dossier collected on law abiding citizens exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Do we really want a future FBI chief like J Edgar Hoover (wearing his tutu and pumps) sicking JACK BOOTED THUGS from ATF on to subscribers of Guns and Ammo. Thank you, now go back to bashing leftist.

h:

No. If you abide by the law you have nought to worry about from information.

Gee I wish I had been around to see J Edgar bashing thugs. Just born too late, I guess. What a bummer.

I'm sure you are correct OJ, but..by the way what is former Attorney General Ramsey Clark doing now and what use would one of his clones in the Democratic Party do with the Patriot Act.

Oh well, just wondering, no reason to worry I'm sure, if the Democrats get in control Howard Dean and such will be there to give adult supervision.

Everybody realizes that the Patriot Act is just a law, a statute, right? So, it is subordinate to the Constitution and can not repeal any part of the Bill of Rights.

If a provision of the Patriot Act clearly violates the Constitution, the courts will either strike it down or neuter it. Really, they will.

Fear of the Partiot Act is largely a phobia. The fear has no basis in reality.

h:

They'd prosecute lawbreaking.

The real issue with libraries is that terrorists used library computers to communicate. Why should that be any more protected than if drug dealers used them to set up deals?

My own local library took to destroying records. I wanted to finish reading some book I'd checked out months earlier, but they couldn't tell me the title, as they had "protected" me from the Eveeeil Ashcroft Brigades.

Liberals love to pretend that John Ashcroft gives a rat's ass about how many Chomsky screeds or Vidal fictions they've read. It gives them instant Glamourous Victim Status, and in their world, victims are automatically heroes. It also plays to the deepest, darkest liberal fear: Mommy catching them in the bathroom, poring over 'Catcher In the Rye'.

Once they offered to send my child's overdue book notices to my e-mail address--but then quickly rescinded the offer. You see, that would violate a child's Privacy Rights had they borrowed "Barney Worships the Earth", "Teen-Age Mutant Ninja Transexuals" or the pro-cloning "Mommy Has Two Heathers". In other words, as a parent, you, too, are Ashcroft!

Which is, of course, another example of how that abortion debate has warped us.