I thought this was a Hillary-free environment.

Now that she has a base of her own, she is free to reject her husband's habit of tacking with every puff of the political winds. Plus, she doesn't need the crowds the way he does.

Unfortunately, her agenda might be a bit more upsetting than his. His "Third Way" was to canoodle with Monica while on the phone with Congress. Hers might just put the UN in charge of US foreign policy, and could also have China getting frisky with a weaker (and more politicized) US military. And her 'solution' for Social Security is not going to be good - and we haven't even talked about Medicare yet.

If everything that every politician suggests is "Third Way", then the Third Way is without content. Geez, who'da thunk it.

David:

Neocons want to stay forever. Leftists want to leave immediately. Moderates want to leave as the Iraqis can stand up.

Which neocons want to stay forever? I haven't read this or heard it anywhere. Everything I've seen says we leave as soon as they are stable and able.

You were too kind to the Leftists - they want more American deaths.

And what do the paleo-cons want - a time machine to undo the 'damage'?

sharon:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,386450,00.html

"Moderates want to leave as the Iraqis can stand up."

The flipside is that we have to tell the Iraqis that we are leaving to force them to stand up. Who wants to stand up if it means that you have to be the one to clean out Anbar province? Better to let the Americans do it. Geez louise, we Americans sure can be dense sometimes.

b:

They've already told us to get ready to leave.

Hell w/the Iraqis, what about the Chermans and SorKs?

I'm really not that worried about Hillary abrogating U.S. authority to the United Nations if she was president, because that would mean having the president give up power to whoever Kofi's successor is and to the General Assmebly. Having gone through all the self-discipline she's enduring now in not pandering to her party's far left in order to obtain the presidency, Hillary's not giving up power to anyone once she gets the job.

What Mrs. Clinton is right now is a wonderful weather vein for how the Democratic Party's internal polls really are tracking on the questions of the day. Others can launch the batty rhetoric to please the MoveOn.org crowd, because they know that kind of stuff brings in money. For those also aspiring to the White House in 2008, they'll worry about the money first, and the consequences of their statements today later. Hillary, with the help of significant other, has her own cash pipeline seperate from MoveOn or George Soros, and can say the things that she may not actually agree with in private, but knows they're the best positions to take for a Democrat who actually wants to win the general election.

oj - What about those of us who want to depart Iraq for Iran & Syria?

Hillary wouldn't be giving up power to the UN, she would be hiding behind them while they do her bidding. If she becomes president, anybody doubt that Bill will get Kofi's job?

pj:

If the point is to change regimes rather than establish empire you aren't a neocon but a theocon.

erp:

Hopefully.

"If the point is to change regimes rather than establish empire you aren't a neocon but a theocon."

This past sunday in a speech broadcast on c-span, Michael Moore contended any regime change will only usher in religious fundamentalists (islamic) making things worse than they already are. Is he right?

He implied the irony of it due to his claim bush is a fundamentalist.

No. Iran since the Revolution is a much better society than Iraq under Saddam.

How can one not feel like Alice at the tea party when people are still talking about our presence in Iraq as though it were an all-or-nothing matter?

Look, we are going to turn over the grunt work to Iraq as soon as possible. We are going to get a bunch of our people out of thehe ASAP. We are not going to "exit" the place, meaning leave altogether, with the people who trusted us hanging on the helicopter skids, at any time in the foreseeable future.

Iraq will not want us to. We are providing them with the training and other support to allow them to function, at best, at a regiment level. If they hope to survive, they must get down on that little rug, start banging their heads of the floor, and praying for all they are worth that we do not leave them is the same situation in which we left the South Vietnamese.

Air, armor, logistics, C3I, and enough ground force to provide security for the same. It is going to continue, no one says otherwise, not Hillary, not any of the rest of those people.

We are going to continue to incur losses to terrorist acts, just as Israel does, for 1947 was a long time ago. Anyone who is talking about complete bugout is playing games with reality. This is not about neocons, theocons or anything else political. Our client states cannot stand alone.