The Murtha ploy was an attempt to get ahead of the curve on this story. The Dems knew a week ago it was coming down the tracks.

Heh, wait a sec. There actually is a plan? But all I've heard from the lefty pundits and the dimbulbs in Congress is that there is no plan.

All the Dems screaming presupposes that not only do we want to stay there indefinitely, but that the only way out is to replicate April 1975.

Torture? Genocide? They'll always have Guantanomo.

I'm more eager than ever to learn how, consdering that GWB has made "leaving is losing" the lietmotif of his second term, how he can get away politically with withdrawing--that is, without rendering his every previous statement on the subject inoperative.

Rick,

Had you been listening to what he said rather than what the MSM say he said, you would know that he has always said we would leave when the Iraqis said they could handle the situation and would so so gradually as the Iraqis took over the policing, etc. Now if you had been reading the stories that the officers in the various areas of Iraq have written, you would know that in many places the Iraqis have almost taken over completely with the US troops only there in small units to assist the Iraqis. I realize that the MSM have not reported this because it did not happen in the Green Zone and that is the only place they know what is happening, but it is not a secret. Michael Yon for one has been reporting it for a good while and the CENTCOM people have also been saying this. It is only the MSM who are totally deaf to what the Iraqis are doing unless it is something they can twist into an anti-Bush argument (see the stories about the Iraqis torturing prisoners - it is Bush's fault because he did not make the Iraqis in their own prisons behave like good little LLL's).

Yes. Well, if it takes that long to explain "what he said," it should be utterly transparent to the voters.

Sounds like he's promising quite the expedition exit:

"If they’re not stopped, the terrorists will be able to advance their agenda to develop weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate Europe, and to break our will and blackmail our government into isolation. I’m going to make you this commitment: This is not going to happen on my watch."

Unless he's playing the loyal servicemembers at Osan Air Base for punks.

No, that would be your specialty. Nice to have you back, Rick.

Give me evidence, Joe, for how Bush can withdraw without dishonoring his statement today, "So long as I'm the Commander-in-Chief, our strategy in Iraq will be driven by the sober judgment of our military commanders on the ground. We will fight the terrorists in Iraq. We will stay in the fight until we have achieved the brave -- the victory that our brave troops have fought for."

Or just hurl insults. Your choice.

Actually, your choice, and preference.

Rick:

You guys convinced yourselves we were there for the oil or to colonize or whatever. But the President has always said we're there to leave.

"So long as I'm the Commander-in-Chief, our strategy in Iraq will be driven by the sober judgment of our military commanders on the ground. We will fight the terrorists in Iraq. We will stay in the fight until we have achieved the brave -- the victory that our brave troops have fought for."

So, Rick, what part of that is contradicted by the article, which says that the plan requires that "Iraqi troops must demonstrate that they can handle security without U.S. help; the country's political process must be strong; and reconstruction and economic conditions must show signs of stability?"

He said that leaving without victory is losing. The plan requires that victory be achieved before leaving. No contradiction that I can see.

Meanwhile, Democrats want to pull a 'Nam II and leave our allies in the lurch.

Orrin, that's the most self-conflating thing to ever emerge from your fingertips. He's going to leave--for sure. And he's going to leave without leaving our allies in the lurch--for sure.

Maybe a little hermeneutic skepticism is in order about exactly WHAT will happen.

Thank god the evil chimperor hasn't thrown brave brave Sir Rick into the gulag yet.

Dick:

Next time you try to explain this to Rick, use a crayon, preferably in a bright color that will keep his attention, and very very small words, think three or four letters max.

we are just about done with our rebranding efforts; how does the "American Surrender Party" sound to you, comrade perlstein ? harry and kerry wanted to go with the "Cowardly Traitor Party" but that just didn't test as well.

Nancy, you gotta fit "Choice" in there somewhere.

Rick:

Yes, in fact, they've suggested that we start the drawdown after the elections in December. The Shi'a want to run their own country as much as we want them to.

Rick,

The problem is that you want the whole story over before it is over. You want us to lay out in public exactly what our strategy is to achieve victory and to leave the country. If we do that, then we might just as well forget it right now because the enemy will have all our plans laid out in detail to satisfy the LLL enemies of the president and they can then figure out how to get around them.

I guess I never understood the leftist mindset. They want to tell the rest of us what to do and then they want us to do exactly what they want when they are not in power and then they complain that we have no plans when we won't tell them exactly, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, what we plan. Makes no sense to me at all.

Then when you combine that with their calling Bush names and telling us how stupid he is and then complaining when a representative reads into the record at the request of a military constituent what he thinks of the plan offered by the opposition. When are they going to realize that they are the opposition party who should have a plan to deliver to offset the plan the party in power has so that they can both be discussed. Instead all we get from them is that they would do the same thing only better and they have a plan. They won't show it to you but take their word they have a plan and it is betterer than yours is.

Rick:

If you think we're losing in Iraq, then do you also believe we will be staying longer?

If you think we're winning, then perhaps we will begin to pull out in a few months.

What do the explosions at the mosques on Friday evening tell you - is the insurgency winning or losing?

Do you care? I don't think the Democrats in Congress do, but you're supposed to be smarter, no?

My god, you guys are the biggest bunch of whiny bitches I've ever seen. *Waaaaaa,* the MSM is the cause of all our problems, MOMMY!

Ron:
I'll keep that in mind the next time I hear a lefty crying, "Oh, the corporations dominate the media! It's all a big conspiracy!"
Do you have anything useful to contribute or has too much of your beloved scotchy-scotch-scotch gone down into your belly?

MUST. . .NOT. . .COMMENT. . .about all or nothing withdrawal.

Two long-winded trolls early on a Sunday morning! They don't want facts, so leave them to their fantasies. It's all the poor dears have left.

BTW - Rick & Ron, If the msm is correct that the vast majority American people want us to bug out of Iraq ASAP, why didn't the Democrats in the house vote to yes to Muthra proposal vote?

It's kinda like ... they're hypocrites or something?

Ron:

I thought BUSH was the cause of all your problems, including your putative libido.

Now, those of us who complain about the media do so only because they are patently stupid. Hopelessly, consistently, energetically stupid. If they tried to do a reasonable job, we wouldn't even bring it up. But 90% plus do not, and the younger ones (like the writers at AP) must think that their life's goal is to educate the masses for the coming Democratic tidal wave. Poor fools.

Are you one of those lefties who thinks that the media hasn't 'confronted' Bush?

Rick: "The plan, which would withdraw a limited amount of troops during 2006, requires that a host of milestones be reached before troops are withdrawn." That was from the article; why not read it?

Erp: The local branch of the MSM reported less than 2% of the American public polled were in favor of immediate withdrawal. Putting it to a vote was the smartest thing I think I've ever seen the "House" do.

Agreed.

Are Ron & Bryan one troll w/multiple personalities?

Rick,

It's very simple. The US will not fully leave Iraq. I presume you've heard of Status of Forces Agreements. We'll keep an Army division and an Air Force wing there. Acts as a nice guard dog, doncha know:)