August 9, 2005


What if the Jews acted like Arabs? (Ryan Jones, August 8, 2005, Israel Insider)

Israel's broadcast and electronic media Sunday carried disturbing photos and video footage of Eden Natan-Zada, the killer of four Israeli-Arabs in northern Israel last week, being lynched to death by a possessed mob moments after his deplorable act.

Some will debate whether or not it is acceptable to mete out ultimate justice outside the boundaries of the law to those who have committed such senseless murder.

But the fact Zada had already been subdued and handcuffed -- as evidenced by the gruesome photos and film footage -- makes those who took his life no less murderers than Zada himself.

Provided that we no longer believe in the concept of justice.

Posted by Orrin Judd at August 9, 2005 3:14 PM

Jews kill more Arabs than Arabs kill Jews.
Since we do believe in justice, at least I do, I think that we owe a lot to the Palestinians whose country was stolen nearly 60 years ago, in a conspiracy where a brutal government currently resides that is supported only by the constant military aid from the United States; who's interest in Israel has less to do with the religious beliefs of Jews than it does with maintaining a military base in the midst of the Middle East.

Posted by: at August 9, 2005 3:22 PM

That last post just had to be anonymous, didn't it?. No one would put his name to such nonsense.

Posted by: jim hamlen at August 9, 2005 3:26 PM

To clarify, I meant comment, not post. Sorry, Orrin.

Posted by: jim hamlen at August 9, 2005 3:27 PM

We have a military base in Israel?

Posted by: Timothy at August 9, 2005 3:36 PM

Why, Timothy, don't you know that Israel is just a colonial forward base for the U.S.? The whole thing's a military camp!!

Admittedly, we have supplied a bunch of dough (though yearly, I believe we actually give Egypt more outright cash aide).

But aside from cast-off (and obsolescent) Sherman tanks, significant U.S. military aid didn't start until after the '67 war(IIRC).

Not that you can use anything like facts to argue about Israel.

Posted by: Twn at August 9, 2005 3:44 PM

Anonymous is at least partially right, which is why we're midwifing a Palestinian state.

Posted by: oj at August 9, 2005 3:47 PM

Depends on the meaning of the word "justice".

If it was common that a killer like this Zada guy would get a proper punishment in a matter of weeks, then this would be barbaric. (For example, see what happened to various assassins and attempted assassins of US presidents prior to 1935.) But when justice means multiple trials dragging on for decades along with multiple appeals, so that a monster like this guy hs more likely to die of old age or get out on an appeal of a technicality, then you get "justice" as in this case. (I'm assuming Israeli courts are as screwed up as the rest of the West.)

If people like Ryan Jones have a problem with that, then it's their responsibility to fix the broken system (one he and his friends probably helped break) so that justice doesn't have to be so immediate.

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at August 9, 2005 3:52 PM

To answer the question in the title, "no". The difference being, of course, that at no point were the hijackers on flight 93 "subdued and handcuffed". Had they been and the passengers killed them anyway, then I don't think we'd view the passengers quite as highly. I think it's rather a cheap shot on OJ's part to elide that distinction.

Posted by: Annoying Old Guy at August 9, 2005 3:54 PM


Justice does not require the legal system.

Posted by: oj at August 9, 2005 3:59 PM

Annoying Old Guy is right, if he was handcuffed, then it was murder. No moral equivalence with Flight 93 as OJ says.

Raoul: Israel does not have the death penalty. While I support the death penalty, I also think that "justice" can be served even if the killer is not executed if that is what the law says. There is no true justice without law.

Posted by: Bob at August 9, 2005 4:07 PM

Justice is a moral standard, not merely legal.

Posted by: oj at August 9, 2005 4:13 PM

Like some dead dude once said, revenge is a kind of wild justice.

Posted by: carter at August 9, 2005 4:25 PM

Whether Eden Natan-Zada was handcuffed or not, calling his death at the hands of a mob "murder" is clearly incorrect.
If it were any crime, it would be manslaughter.

However, it was not a crime, simply an execution by extra-judicial means - when the State executes prisoners, they too are restrained.

Nobody doubts Zada's guilt in the murder of four people; while the justice that he received was not the law of his nation, it is a recognized penalty in most nations on Earth, and certainly throughout history.

Posted by: Michael Herdegen at August 9, 2005 4:46 PM

Jews kill more Arabs than Arabs kill Jews.

Well, mebbe, but not for the Arabs' lack of trying.

And they've been trying for quite a while now. So that maybe, after all their yacking (and killing Jews) in 1920 and 1921, 1929 and 1937-39, 1947 and 1948, 1949-1956 and 1967, 1973, and up until today, just maybe they will finally get their act together---admittedly, they do talk the talk darn well---and destroy the Zionist entity, Jewish State, what have you, already.

And justice will finally be served.

(Of course, if they don't quite make it this time around either, one can still place the blame fairly on Israel. And wait for them all to try again. And persistance like that ought to be rewarded. As, of course, it increasingly is.)

Posted by: Barry Meislin at August 9, 2005 5:26 PM

Americans kill more Muslims than Muslims kill Americans. So what? When it comes to murder, the situations are reversed.

Posted by: David Cohen at August 9, 2005 5:53 PM

The palestinians kill more jewish women and children than the jews kill palestinian women and children. In other words, the Israielis kill the guilty while the palestinians kill the innocent.

Posted by: Patrick H at August 9, 2005 6:39 PM

We don't know how much killing there is in the "territories". Snitches get killed, suspected collaborators are killed, and don't forget the lovely family honor killings. And, as someone mentioned a week or so ago, what about the deaths from all that celebratory gunfire?

Last time I checked, the Israeli citizenry wasn't keeping up with the Abbases on the murder count.

Posted by: ratbert at August 9, 2005 8:10 PM

Even the left doesn't pretend to care about Palestinians killing Palestinians.

Posted by: David Cohen at August 9, 2005 9:36 PM

Michael H: The grading of the offense here is a jury question. As a prosecutor, I would certainly argue that cooling time has elapsed and legal provocation expired. Also, there may be felony murder issues here, relative to riot and/or lynching.

As to the anonymous comment, I should hope that my country has had rational policies in the middle east and has not merely supported Israel for "religious" motives. The theory that our support of Israel is part of our strategic interest in the region is not without merit. Is this supposed to be a bad thing?

Posted by: Lou Gots at August 9, 2005 11:30 PM

Anon. Read this before making any more ridiculous comments about "Palestine" and also, please learn the difference between "who's" and "whose."

Posted by: erp at August 10, 2005 12:20 AM

The funny thing is that the people who stole a country from the Palestinians, were their Arab neighbors, who refused the UN partition plan and took the territory for their own.

Posted by: Robert Schwartz at August 10, 2005 1:09 AM

Jews kill more Arabs than Arabs kill Jews.

Should we even it out with "crack suicide squads"?

Posted by: Joseph Hertzlinger at August 10, 2005 2:37 PM

We already know Orrin does not believe in justice. He tells us often enough.

Posted by: Harry Eagar at August 11, 2005 11:04 PM



Posted by: oj at August 11, 2005 11:19 PM

Well, within the last 48 hours, your expressed preference for Protestant terrorism over Catholic.

More generally, your endorsement of evicting populations based on religion.

Posted by: Harry Eagar at August 12, 2005 5:01 PM

Well, within the last 48 hours, your expressed preference for Protestant terrorism over Catholic.

More generally, your endorsement of evicting populations based on religion.

Posted by: Harry Eagar at August 12, 2005 5:03 PM


What could be more just than the Shi'ite majority getting power after 1300 years of oppression? If the others can't stand not being overlords that's their problem, not a justice issue.

Posted by: oj at August 12, 2005 7:47 PM