August 14, 2005


Cindy Sheenan: Without Internet, U.S. Would Be a “Fascist State” (Byron York, 8/11/05, National Review)

"This is something that can't be ignored," Sheehan said during a conference call with bloggers representing sites like,, and "They can't ignore us, and they can't put us down. Thank God for the Internet, or we wouldn't know anything, and we would already be a fascist state."

"Our government is run by one party, every level," Sheehan continued, "and the mainstream media is a propaganda tool for the government." Sheehan also called the 2004 presidential election "the election, quote-unquote, that happened in November."

The conference call was moderated by Democratic strategist Joe Trippi, who managed former Vermont governor Howard Dean's presidential campaign in 2003 and 2004. It was also organized by another Democratic strategist, Bob Fertik of (During the conference, Fertik said that for the purposes of the call, he was representing yet another website, the antiwar site Finally, Jodie Evans of the anti-war group Code Pink also took part in running the sometimes-chaotic call. Trippi has posted a recording of the call on his own website,

Also taking part in the call was Illinois Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky, a frequent participant in progressive political conferences and anti-war events.

Wait a second, aren't bloggers just fascist toadies?

Posted by Orrin Judd at August 14, 2005 12:18 PM

speak for yourself, big fella.

Posted by: lonbud at August 14, 2005 12:28 PM

You know the lyrics?

Posted by: oj at August 14, 2005 12:37 PM

can't say i do.

Posted by: lonbud at August 14, 2005 1:09 PM

So I was, in fact, speaking for you.

Posted by: oj at August 14, 2005 1:17 PM

You defended Spain, a fascist state.

Posted by: Rick Perlstein at August 14, 2005 1:18 PM

Franco's Spain isn't considered fascist:

Only Nazi Germany qualifies any more.

But yes, Franco's form of fascism was vastly preferable to the alternative. Despite you and Ms Sheehan, the alternative never had a shot here and has never been more marginalized than it is now.

Posted by: oj at August 14, 2005 1:24 PM

Unlike G. Gordon Liddy, I do not exactly sing this one in the shower.

The lyrics can be found at

The whole Horst Wessel story is a good reminder of how low-class, how banal all that business was. I am strongly reminded of the HWL when I recall the peace creep/Comsymp chant at the 1968 Democrat convention, "The streets belong to the people, the streets belong to the people."

Posted by: Lou Gots at August 14, 2005 1:29 PM

I just love a good argument.

Posted by: Peter B at August 14, 2005 1:34 PM

This isn't an argument, it's contradiction.

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at August 14, 2005 1:48 PM

No it isn't.

Posted by: joe shropshire at August 14, 2005 2:00 PM

Yes it is.

Posted by: Brandon at August 14, 2005 2:16 PM

What argument?

Posted by: oj at August 14, 2005 2:41 PM

The one we're having in our spare time...

Posted by: joe shropshire at August 14, 2005 2:50 PM

Bloggers used to be fascist toadies. Now they're the vanguard of the proletariat.

Posted by: David Cohen at August 14, 2005 2:58 PM

Then they should sing "The Internationale."

Posted by: George at August 14, 2005 3:27 PM

Would you settle for the "Holzfaller Song"?

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at August 14, 2005 4:43 PM

Your legal training is showing. What do they call the kind of argument where you say, "Your honor, Spain isn't fascist, but even if it's fascist, it's not the bad kind of fascist."

Posted by: Rick Perlstein at August 15, 2005 1:38 AM


So, what do you make of this from Franco's biography on Wikipedia:

Lacking any strong ideology, Franco initially sought support from National syndicalism (nacionalsindicalismo) and the Catholic Church (nacionalcatolicismo). His coalition ruling single party, the Movimiento Nacional, was so heterogeneous as to barely qualify as a party at all, and certainly not an ideological monolith like the Fascio di Combattimento (Fascist Party or the ruling block of Antonio Salazar). His Spanish State was chiefly a conservative - even traditionalist - rightist regime, with emphasis on order and stability, rather than a definite political vision.

How do you explain that Spain was the safest place in Europe for Jews during WW11? Do you draw any distinction between totalitarian fascist regimes and traditional Latin authoritarian ones? More to the point, do you place any blame on the Spanish left for trying to destroy Spanish democracy and inviting a repressive response, or are they forever innocent because their hearts were pure and they cared only for "the people"?

Posted by: Peter B at August 15, 2005 5:35 AM


Yes. When people speak of fascism today they really just mean Nazism, which was not fascist by any historical standard and nothing like even the other members of the Axis. But fascist regimes like Franco's and Pinochet's, which have little in common with Hitler's, were the salvation of their nations.

Posted by: oj at August 15, 2005 7:19 AM


It's useless. The Left long ago convinced themselves that Spain would have been better off Stalinist.

Posted by: oj at August 15, 2005 7:31 AM


Yes, and that anyone who disagrees is, by definition, a fascist.

Posted by: Peter B at August 15, 2005 11:59 AM

At the rate they Left is going American kids a generation from now will be so used to hearing their parents and leaders called fascist they'll assume it's a compliment.

Posted by: oj at August 15, 2005 12:02 PM

Hasn't the yawn factor kicked in for her yet? The Runaway Bride had her two weeks of infamy, then the mother of the missing girl in Aruba got 2-3 weeks until everyone got sick of hearing about the story, but at least there there was the promise of breaking developments. But with Sheehan there is no promise of breaking developments, no trial. She's just going to keep yapping. Even the MSM can't sell that for too much longer.

Posted by: Robert Duquette at August 15, 2005 5:16 PM


Just wait--she'll say something so horrific, on-camera, that they'll bury her.

Posted by: oj at August 15, 2005 5:31 PM