July 22, 2005


Intel Officers: Bush Needs to Punish Rove for Plame Outing (Fox News, July 22, 2005)

Former U.S. intelligence officers criticized President Bush on Friday for not disciplining Karl Rove in connection with the leak of the name of a CIA officer, saying Bush's lack of action has jeopardized national security.

In a hearing held by Senate and House Democrats examining the implications of exposing Valerie Plame's identity, the former intelligence officers said Bush's silence has hampered efforts to recruit informants to help the United States fight the War on Terror. Federal law forbids government officials from revealing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer.

"I wouldn't be here this morning if President Bush had done the one thing required of him as commander in chief — protect and defend the Constitution," said Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst. "The minute that Valerie Plame's identity was outed, he should have delivered a strict and strong message to his employees."

Apparently it escaped their notice that President Bush defended the Constitution by sending in Porter Goss to get rid of all the spooks who were trying to subvert the elected government via cheap stunts like the Palme report.

Posted by Orrin Judd at July 22, 2005 8:50 PM

Here's a great analogy I have used in arguing....

Imagine some Democrat said something really racially stupid like Vincente Fox's "even blacks won't take those jobs"... or whatever. (Someone help me with an example.)

And then... TRENT LOTT, say... comes out swinging, horrified and outraged over "this affront to African-Americans, to the memory of Martin Luther King and those gallant civil rights workers", etc etc.

Well, Lott would in fact be (politically) correct in such a case.

And what Democrat out there wouldn't be insulted by the absurdity of TRENT LOTT being the one leaping to the defense of African-Americans against racism. He would be right, but... please. Right. Trent Lott. Yeah, tell me more brother, uh huh.

Well, that is exactly the stance of virtually every Republican as the DEMOCRATS leap to the defense of.... THE CIA! Right. Uh huh. The same party of the intelligence eviscerating Church Committee, that put Ron Dellums on the House Intel Committee who wanted to abolish the CIA entirely (who needs it any more, and it's just a tool of imperialism), that ordered the CIA not to deal with human rights violators, the equivalent of telling the DEA never, ever to hang around with drug dealers, and whose philosophical foundations in the academies have glorified the CIA's enemies since day one.

THAT's the party leaping to the defense of uour heroic, put upon CIA agents??

Right. Uh huh.


Posted by: Andrew X at July 22, 2005 9:26 PM

What a bunch of sorry a**hats! Somebody should ask these morons "Why should Bush fire Karl Rove? What law has Rove broken?" I think all these CIA personnel should be tried for treason.

Posted by: sam at July 22, 2005 9:36 PM

sam: you answered your own question.

oj: your consistent typing dyslexia with respect to ms. palme [sic] is rather curious.

Posted by: lonbud at July 22, 2005 10:05 PM

I find it interesting that the democrats are holding this hearing. Is this an official hearing or is this just a publicity stunt? Strikes me that if it is an official hearing that it would not be held by democrats, it would a congressional hearing. Since that is not what they said, then this is just a news conference in the guise of something official and it deserves all the attention that the usual democratic news conferences deserve - none at all!!

Posted by: dick at July 22, 2005 10:07 PM

My question: How is it that a bunch of former intelligence analysts know what effect Plame's disclosure is having on recruitment? The article makes clear that everyone who testified is no longer employed -- this sounds more like sour grapes from Porter Goss' ongoing housecleaning.

I especially liked the fatuous non sequitur spouted by one Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel and defense intelligence officer: "This says to them [i.e., foreigners cooperating with the U.S.] that if you decide to cooperate, someone will give you up, so you don't do it ... They are not going to trust you in any way." Well perhaps, except for the stubborn fact that Valerie {Plame] Wilson was not a foreigner but instead an American C.I.A. employee who used her position to subvert the executive and tried to improperly influence the election.

Posted by: jd watson at July 22, 2005 10:26 PM

This is the latest skirmish in the insurgency being waged by bureaucrats, reporters, and Minority Hill staffers against Bush ... and, of course, Goss and Rumsfeld. Condi will get her turn.

I'm still thinking Fitzgerald is going to blow the windows out.

Posted by: ghostcat at July 22, 2005 11:09 PM

jd: lang wasn't referring to plame or to potential cia operatives, he was referring to potential intelligence sources in foreign governments and ouside groups, whose cooperation is needed for us to get actionable information about threats to american security.

as opposed to american stooges like chalabi.

and since when is undying loyalty to the executive touchstone of patriotism? what are you, a north korean?

Posted by: lonbud at July 23, 2005 12:36 AM


You bet, they dote on every word of the palme case...

Posted by: oj at July 23, 2005 12:40 AM

I got olaf out of that one, oj. Sweed!

Posted by: ghostcat at July 23, 2005 12:54 AM

The O.S.S. served the nation more than itself, right ?

As long as we're bashing bureaucratic agencies, why not throw in the DEA ?

They're supposed to be ridding America of the scourge of drugs, but instead they concentrate on the least harmful drug, marijuana, because it's relatively easy to find the suppliers.

Why don't they try surveilling the local street-corner crack dealers, and working their way up the chain ?

This ain't rocket science.

Posted by: Michael Herdegen at July 23, 2005 1:37 AM

One at a time Michael. Right now the CIA is a much bigger problem.

Posted by: Robert Schwartz at July 23, 2005 2:40 AM


The DEA is a complete waste of time, our 'War on Drugs' is simply the ultimate ATM machine for policemen, politicians and the mobsters who employ them.

What has the CIA ever done except smuggle Nazis out of Europe and drugs into America? It certainly has managed to produce anything in 50 years that could remotely be called 'Intelligence.'

Posted by: bart at July 23, 2005 4:22 AM

lonbud: Of course Lang was referring to the Plame case, and saying that her disclosure endangered foreign agents, otherwise his comment makes no sense at all. Give me an example of the outing of a foreign intelligence source he was citing.

I said nothing about patriotism -- you, sir, are projecting. The C.I.A. is a branch of the Executive, and therefore should not undermine the elected representative of the people. To think otherwise is to undermine our democracy.

And No, I am not a North Korean -- Are you an idiot?

Posted by: jd watson at July 23, 2005 4:41 AM

The left would not like it if large segments of the military became political. During the Clinton years I thought my brother-in-law's head would explode at times but he never said one word about policy or the CinC. He didn't like his plane and crew sitting on runways in Alaska and Turkey for days on end waiting for engineers to rebuild parts because there were no spares. He and his friends saw their duty as not to complain but to do the best with what the civilians in charge gave them.

Posted by: David at July 23, 2005 8:34 AM


Yes, the OSS was a joke, but an upper class one, so it got to expand.

Posted by: oj at July 23, 2005 8:58 AM

When? "I wish to be useful, and every kind of service necessary to the public good becomes honorable by being necessary. If the exigencies of my country demand a peculiar service, its claim to perform that service are imperious."--Nathan Hale, 1776

The public still thinks of James Bond; if only:

"I repeatedly asked for a speaker of Dari or Pashtun...to debrief the flood of refugees...They were a goldmine of information. We could have recruited some and sent them back across the border to report on Afghanistan. I was told there were no Dari or Pashtun speakers anywhere. I was told the CIA no longer collected on Afghanistan, so those languages weren't needed. Headquarters instead offered to send out a four-person sexual-harrasment briefing team."--fmr. actual secret agent Robert Baer, 'See No Evil'

As for Palme/Plame...you've seen one socialist soccer mom, you've seen them all.

Posted by: Noel at July 23, 2005 10:49 AM


Since you think that all of WW II was a bad joke, I'm not sure how much weight to give your opinion of the OSS.

Posted by: Michael Herdegen at July 23, 2005 11:02 AM

Porter Goss is carrying out a long overdue vetting of incompetent CIA employees from the employment rolls. We'll see a dramatic improvement in national security once that is accomplished.

More and faster please.

Posted by: John J. Coupal at July 23, 2005 11:07 AM


Why? The military generally did a good job. the OSS was just a Yalie clubhouse.

Posted by: oj at July 23, 2005 11:08 AM

Similarly, we don't need a CIA. The functions it is supposed to be doing should be handled by DOD.

Posted by: bart at July 23, 2005 12:23 PM

Hmmm, so Felt was obliged to work in the open, but Bush is not?

Posted by: Harry Eagar at July 23, 2005 4:01 PM

Felt was Palme, not Rove, a bureaucrat taking on the elected government. Bush wisely just ignored the CIA and went to war without their "help."

Posted by: oj at July 23, 2005 4:10 PM

Oh. I get you now. Some people are above the law.

Posted by: Harry Eagar at July 23, 2005 6:38 PM

What law? He had the votes, 77-23, wasn't it?

Posted by: jim hamlen at July 23, 2005 7:03 PM

Wasn't Doug Feith J. Edgar Hoover's #2 guy? Whoda thunk Harry was a fan. Send me your address and I'll mail you a t-shirt.

Posted by: joe shropshire at July 23, 2005 7:28 PM

jim: someone in the executive branch broke the intelligence identities protection act of 1982.

Posted by: lonbud at July 23, 2005 10:16 PM

jd: i see you carry the gene for picking nits.

if the identity of any foreign agent was compromised in the outing of america's most famous socialist soccer mom (and we ought to be safe in assuming, since her playing field was the WMD of one-time reknown, some foreign agent or other had to start sweating bullets with the disclosure), it is more than likely said agent's untimely end would never make it onto FOX, or even any of the america-hating socialist media platforms. so, sorry, i don't have a citation for you.

and no, i don't believe i'm an idiot, but then, if i were, i wouldn't know it anyway.

Posted by: lonbud at July 23, 2005 10:31 PM


No, they didn't.

Posted by: oj at July 24, 2005 1:45 AM

well, of course, someone did, oj. it may not have been rove or libby or fleischer, or even bush or cheney or any of the most obvious characters, but someone broke the law and the bush administration's lack of interest in finding out who, or in having them punished for the transgression, is typical of the general rejection of accountability that informs mr. bush's illegitimacy as a leader.

Posted by: lonbud at July 24, 2005 2:18 PM


No, they didn't. She wasn't covered by the law. The Administration did though appoint a special prosecutor to get to the bottom of the matter, demonstrating both its interest and accountability.

Posted by: oj at July 24, 2005 2:22 PM

i'm fine with waiting for fitzgerald's report.

Posted by: lonbud at July 24, 2005 2:29 PM

You don''t need to--we already know that no crime was committed vis-a-vis Ms Palme:


Posted by: oj at July 24, 2005 2:34 PM

Well, there was big push for uni fems to run the intelligence services after Plame came out to do some get even(notice she skipped Rice, Dr.WMD), just ask the French who appointed a male. MI6 did wonderfully with the Tiawan/Chinese Plame copy cat, but why do they keep on saying Blair hisself had to handle it?!

Posted by: at July 25, 2005 2:16 AM