OJ, apropo of your automobile phobia, here is great idea for your father's day gift. You won't have to violate your time zone rule, great gas mileage, no polution, no snow removal for the driveway, as matter of fact you don't even have to leave the house. I estimate you could pick one up for 200k. Another view is here

It's not about cars, but driving.

So, you sit in a car so you can look mahvelous?

Realistic fuel mileage figures would tank the hybrid market immediately.

Consumer word of mouth will do so take a little longer.

Strange, all word of mouth about the hybrids I hear is very positive from their actual users.

Chris:

Well, of course, they're all trying to convince themselves they didn't waste $5K by buying the hybrid.

So do I. The people I talk to who have Civic Hybrids and Priuses like them, which isn't surprising -- Honda and Toyota build pleasing small cars. But they're not getting 60 mpg, they're getting in the mid-to-high 40s. You can just about match that with a VW TDI diesel, or a motorcycle; or you could save some money upfront and buy a conventional Japanese subcompact that will get 30-35 mpg and that you know will wear like an anvil. We don't know that about hybrids yet. They might be very reliable, and it helps that Toyota and Honda are building them, but some of the power train bits are big bucks if they fail early. That's a lot of downside risk for an extra 10 to 15 miles per gallon, particularly when you're paying an extra $3 - $5K for the privilege. The trouble with hybrids isn't that they're bad cars, it's that they're competing against such a tough standard, particularly when long-term maintenance risks are factored in. At present they're a status purchase, not harmful but not really rational either.

We get 42 mpg on the highway in our '97 Sentra, though it is getting to be a little small now that we have two kids. Our milage is actually a little better than our friend that has a Prius. There is little efficiency to be gained by driving a hybrid in a county without a stoplight.

Jason: Do you have hills? It also helps to have hills?

I wonder about these figures. I used to have a Chevrolet Sprint Metro, the car which became the Geo Metro, with a 3-cylinder Suzuki engine. The thing was quite peppy and got over 50mpg over the road. City milage was much less, around 30mpg. It was fun to drive and a dream to park in the city, having what was supposed to have been the tightest turning radius of any car in the world. The game was that some thoughtless, selfish canoe driver always left a 12 foot space in front of his car, so I always had a reserved parking place. BTW, the thing was so light that tire wear was minimal. I got 40K on the front tires and I can't tell you how much on the rear, as I got rid of it after 6 years with the original back tires in place. They d't use the 3-cyl and more, so I can't say how god the current model is on gas.

Good driving habits and good maintenance help here. In retrospect, I would have used the Sprint as my city car even without the suberb mileage, because of the other conveniences. Pay your money and take your choice. I have found that a sub-compact for local use and a big SUV for sports constitutes the way to go.

The point about the mileage numbers is to make comparisons between different types of cars easier. If the test says car "A" gets 20 and car "B" gets 30, then you know that if you buy "B", you can expect to spend 50% more on gasoline over "A", no matter what the actual mileage my actually be. So then you have to decide if the brand name and the super-sized drink holders are worth that penalty. What is so hard to understand about that?

Possibly the point of the change is to force automakers to do more to meet the CAFE standards, since this would push down the average MPG for all of their lines.

Hybrids are not a panacea, but they're definitely better in urban areas, due to high MPG and low emmissions.
Diesels can almost match hybrid performance, but they emit a lot of particulates, which is why there's a limit as to how many automotive diesels can be sold annually. Hybrids are much cleaner, but cost more.
Pick yer poison.

Raoul: "The point about the mileage numbers is to make comparisons between different types of cars easier."

The other point to make comparisons between the premium paid for a car vs. the operating cost. For that you need absolute values for mpg, to estimate gal/yr --> dollars/yr. If the mpg figures are off, the buyer is getting skewed idea of the return on investment.

Bill makes a good point.

Additionally, the fuel figures for hybrids are much more optimistic than for conventional cars.

Using AC, heat, defrost, or the windshield wipers, crushes the fuel advantage for hybrids.