What's a good PC apology without reparations?

Indeed. Plus if you exhaust yourself apologizing for the anti-semitism of sixty years ago, how can anyone expect you to have the energy to worry about the contemporary version?

Fogh Rasmussen has a very good record on contemporary anti-semitism and was elected on a program of limiting Muslim immigration into Denmark.

So, he's a bigot, but at least he's our bigot?

If you were familiar with Danish crime rates and who is committing the crimes, you wouldn't be so sanguine. The Muslims behave so as to make even the Danes hate them and the Danes don't hate anybody, as their welcoming behavior towards sub-Saharan Africans shows.

What is your problem anyway? Don't you understand that we are in a conflict of (for want of better word) civilizations with Islam? That Islam demands the massacre of non-believers and that Muslims are murdering non-believers all over the world, simply because they are non-believers. At least OJ has the excuse of being a religious fanatic who believes others should be similarly fanatical. You don't.

If Muslims didn't behave like they do, I'd be as sympathetic to their immigration as I am to anyone else's. But they don't, so I'm not.

so is the definition of bigotry anyone who is for public order and safety ? the european backlash against the muslim immigrants is a response to extremely bad behavior on the part of those immigrants. i really believe some of the people here don't know the difference between immigration and invasion. comes from living in homogenous parts of the country. and isn't it funny that those self same areas are so lackluster when compared to the more vital states ? i think the atlas entry for new hampshire reached a static state around 1963. still, its always nice to adopt public piety at someone else's expense -- just ask a leftist.

Well, cjm, being for public order is not bigotry, but when you define it as hinging on the presence or absence of one faith, what else would you call it?

You guys are great. Everybody knows the Muslim world is one the most publically ordered on the planet, but you've talked yourself into seeing vandalism and b&e as coming from the Koran. Where would you rather take a midnight stroll--Rio, Chicago, Lagos or Teheran? Do you think it's the Muslims who are responsible for crime rates in inner English cities?

If Europeans want to be ethnocentric, fine, but let's call it what it is.

i didn't say muslims are criminals, i said the criminals are muslim. but don't let the facts get in the way of your posturing. unlike some, i don't claim to know who is good and who is bad, just by looking at them (perhaps some here are able to look into another's soul, which would be a big advantage when passing judgement). immigration policy should be based on the needs and interests of the host country.

Peter,

They are well over 50% of the inmates of French prisons and almost half the inmates in Norwegian prisons. Danes, Dutch and Belgians are experiencing the same phenomenon. Bengalis are responsible for much of the violent crime in Britain. Tower Hamlets at midnight is no pleasure.

The Koran specifically encourages violence against non-Muslims. Their perverse version of the Golden Rule only applies to other Muslims. All over the world, it is Islam on the march butchering non-Muslims. Look at Irian Jaya and East Timor. Since you brought up Nigeria, I think you might want to consider the huge presence of anti-Christian violence in some of the majority Muslim states in the North. In Cote d'Ivoire, Muslims are attacking Christians and animists.

I understand that you are Canadian and that requires you to be dedicated to PC at all times, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary. But even you should see the reality that Europeans are facing and that is faced by anyone unfortunate enough to be bordering the Muslims.

It is imperative for the survival of our nation that all Muslims be booted out forthwith, so that we can preserve our civilization.

When Muslims decide to behave like civilized human beings, then we should be willing to welcome them, but there has been no evidence of this for about 8 centuries so it is unlikely to change.

Bart: We are not in a conflict of civilizations. We are in a conflict between civilization and barbarians. As we've noted ad nauseum, Islamic fundamentalists have killed about 6,000 Americans. We've killed, roughly, 200,000 Muslims in retaliation. So, even if this were a conflict of civilizations, (a) we're winning, and (b) they're not the dangerous ones.

CJM: Trying to keep terrorists and criminals out of the country is fine, although not usually worth the cost. Trying to keep out Muslims because, um, because, um, for some REALLY GOOD REASON, is bigotry.

"fine, but" or "yes, but" is a phrase i have heard/seen elsewhere, but can't quite put my finger on it...

the well off are always against trying to fix problems.

name calling is a classic symptom of, wait for it, bigotry.

nowhere have i advocated limiting immigration to this country because it isn't a problem here. in europe, for reasons peculiar to there, it has become a problem. until they fix that problem, why is it wrong of them to want to limit or halt further immigration ?

a truly moral person (as opposed to the pseudo morality of a public scold) doesn't adopt an air of superiority -- they are humble in their pronouncements. do the math and get back to me.

oh, and nice of you to show so much concern and sympathy to all the victims of muslim crime in europe. karma's a bitch but i know when its you and yours on the receiving end, you won't make a peep in protest, because that would be biggoted.

cjm:

If you settle down for a moment and re-read your post you will see you have just stated that you are not against Muslim immigration to North America because crime by Muslims isn't a problem here, but it is in Europe. What is the constant and what is the variable in those two little observations?

Variable? Constant?

Is this a trick question or do you not know the answer? Lesser number of Muslims migrating to North America than to Europe and thus not that critical mass of immigrants to sustain their own cultural distance and distain for the dominant culture of America could be one answer.

The other more likely answer is that Muslim immigration to North American is to a larger extent from Pakistan, India, Iran and Bangladesh than from Arab countries.

Peter your suggestion seems to be that the European countries are in some fashion causing Muslims from Arab lands to fall into a criminal lifestyle. Without straining yourself could you explain how they do that, since we in North America would like to avoid doing the same thing.

distain should read disdain.

By the way I think Muslims are a disproportionate percentage of the US prison population, when compared to their percentage of the total population. (due to our homegrown Muslims and not immigrants)

the people who immigrate to europe tend to go on the dole and live in ghettos (traditional definition of the word). the people who come here do so for the opportunity to get ahead by working hard. also, we are much, much, harder on criminal behavior here. as far as i know, there haven't been any honor killings in this country, whereas in europe its a problem.

peter: you tell me what's the constant and what's the variable.

if immigration, or any other policy, is causing real problems for a nation, then why is it somehow wrong to put that policy on hold until the problem is resolved ?

was the welfare reform act a result of bigotry ? some said it was, but most thought it was a good change to make.

Sure, h-man, I'd love to. But if you don't mind, let's wait for a thread on immigration policy rather than one on whether mass deportations on religious or racial grounds under decrees on public order and safety in the name of ethnic or cultural purity are good things or not.

To get back to the original thread:

The Danes have been admired---and rightly so---for their heroic effort, largely successful, during WWII, to save the Danish Jewish community; that is, to boat them safely over to neutral Sweden (which has its own issues regarding trade with the Nazis during that period, but that's another story). This, in contradistinction to almost every country during that benighted time. (Exceptions are Bulgaria and Morocco under the father of Hassan II--Mohammed V, I believe).

Most Danish Jews were saved, and common Danes, particularly sailors and small boat owners---though it is not limited to these---took part in the operation.

Various mythologies grew up around this group-humanitarian decision. One of these is that that the King of Denmark, in solidarity with the Jews, and to show that Nazis were going to intimidate the Danes into giving up Danish Jews, wore a yellow star (with the Danish equavalent of Jew on it) sewn to his outer clothing. Another myth is that ALL Jews in Denmark were saved.

However, the King did not, as it turns out, wear the yellow star; and NON-DANISH Jewish refugees into Denmark, which was not conquered by Germany until 1940) were sent back out of Denmark, or given up to the Nazi authorities.

I do not think that such disclosures at all lessen, mitigate or dilute the extraordinary humanitarian assistance the Danes gave the Jews under the most trying conditions in WWII.

I do think this apology is meant to set the record straight---that while the Danes deserve a tremendous amount of credit, it is an acknowledgement that they don't deserve credit for what they didn't do.

Given the behavior of the French, post-war, e.g, where every Frenchman was in the maquis---and others---I think that such behavior on the part of a Danish public servant continues to demonstrate the superior morality, generality speaking, of that little-big country.

(And it also makes Danish criticism of Israeli over the past four and a half years all the more difficult to bear; though one may well understand that they are under the same morbid influences that have infested Europe and the world at large.)

should be "...and were not going to intimidate..."

Barry,

Danish criticism of Israel is entirely from its loopy left, who are just as nutzoid as the Left in any other European country. There is little to no criticism of Israel, and Fogh Rasmussen has been more supportive than Tony Blair for example, from the Danish center and right. Certainly when one compares them with the Norwegian center and right which are nearly as vile as the Norwegian left on the matter.

Peter,

There are currently over 600,000 Muslims in American prisons, about 20-25% of the American Muslim population. You cannot deny that there is something in Muslim culture which encourages the butchery of the 'other'. In places as diverse as France, Australia and Norway, Muslims have gangraped teenage non-Muslim girls as a 'rite of passage.' Their culture demands this behavior and it is inconsistent with living in a civilized society.

David,

The millions of Sudanese butchered by Arab Muslims don't count? The hundreds of thousands of Timorese Christians don't count? The tens of thousands of Papuan Christians, Animists, Indonesian Chinese, Ambon Christians don't count? The murder of tens of thousands of Hindus in Pakistan and India don't count? Chechen terror doesn't count? The Bali bombing doesn't count? The predations in Europe by Muslim criminals don't count? That's blinkered, dishonorable and mean-spirited on your part.

Your numbers are high, but that's what I'm saying (with qualifications that will be immediately apparent to everyone else, but would be irrelevant to you).