Ah yes, but that is nothing compared to what the French think of everyone else!

For the Germans, the French are "pretentious, offhand and frivolous".

". . . but they make great collaborators, and the tree lined streets are good to march on."

Perhaps I'm paranoid but I wonder if the timing of release of this study/article is designed to tick the French off enough to vote yes on the EU constitution. The French could think if they don't like us then we might as well rule them through the EU.

Look at a poll of European opinion about Germans or English and you'll find similar points of view. And no biped cares what Iberians and Greeks have to say about anything.

The 'ugly Frenchman' is a reality though, but not nearly as bad as the 'ugly German' or the 'ugly Brit.' You cannot go to a train station anywhere on the Continent in summer and not see loud, drunken Brits lounging about in their own vomit.

I think you are missing something here, Bart. The "ugly German" and the "ugly Brit" can be pretty ugly, to be sure, but I don't have any image at all of the "ugly Frenchman". Just of Frenchmen.

I guess you've never been minding your own business in the Orangerie or the Palazzo Uffizi and been nearly trampled to death by a herd of fat, sweaty German tourists. It is the rare German on holiday who is not a swine. Most Germans behave as if they won the war.

If you are going to say bad things about the French, you have to keep in mind the utter refusal while on holiday to speak the local language, with a fanaticism that rivals Americans in that regard. You also should mention cheapness. French people don't tip. The Frenchman is taught his own superiority from infancy. 'Nos ancetres les Gaulois' and all that.

Being called immoral by Swedes, whose women flood the Meditteranean for the express purpose of having sex with everyone and everything, is a little much, I think you'd agree.

Well, I certainly don't share the modern Swedish notion of morality, but I do acknowledge that, unlike the French, they at least have one. Anyway, I don't think anyone here is reluctant to acknowledge Gallic achievements

But Bart, why do you travel at all? You are a walking advertisement for the time zone rule.

It all depends. Sometimes on business. Sometimes for food, or for scenery or for the culture. The more I travel, the more I become convinced that America does most things, not all things, about right.

To my observation(and I've seen them from Copenhagen to the Costa Brava), the average Swede, both male and female, lacks the dignity of a short Welsh herding dog. I would not be surprised if they engaged in coprophagia. THe French can be scum but nothing like Swedes or Germans or English.

Meatballs are second to none, though.

I think I'll make all my comments today from this point on relate to OJ's theme of the day: nationalism. To that point, I see that in the post Peter links, OJ uses "we" not only to mean someone other than the United States, but in fact our enemies at the time of which he is speaking.

Barry,

You reminded me of an episode of Babylon 5 where the Narn Ambassador G'Kar is eating a plate of food with a friend from his home planet. The friend says 'G'Kar, where did you find bleen?'

G'Kar replies,'Garibaldi gave these to me. They are an Earth delicacy called 'Swedish Meatballs.' You know, it's amazing. All over the known universe, different planets, different races, but every single one has a dish identical to this. It's one of life's mysteries.'

bart: what character from Babylon 5 would most represent OJ ?

--For the Germans, the French are "pretentious, offhand and frivolous". --

Read a snippet of Peggy Lipton's bio in People. She said you marry someone w/the qualities you lack.

bleen?

I thought it was Spoo.
$)*((%*)@$($%*

I am not going to look thru the eps.

Maybe the Lurker's Guide, if it's still up.

And crossing the channel one cannot say much
For the French or the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

Flanders and Swain, The English Song

I'm somewhat disappointed that they didn't list what the Swiss said about the French, considering what my Swiss friends have said.

The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce in properly.

-- Henry Higgins, My Fair Lady

Ah, the Trench, cowardly, but opinionated, arrogant, yet foul smelling. To them is to loathe them.

Lets try that again this time with fingers:

Ah, the French, cowardly, but opinionated, arrogant, yet foul smelling. To know them is to loathe them.

Re Babylon 5. I heard the stuff was bReen, not bleen. Spoo is a Centauri dish that looks like blueberry jello.

Bart left off the good part of the quote:

"It's one of life's mysteries, that will either remain forever unsolved, or drive you mad if you ever found out."

Bart - And in what exact parts of the Mediterranean would one find these lamentably sex-obsessed Swedish women?

Tom: Everywhere you aren't.

So, they've now discovered that most Europeans can't stand people from other European nations.

Would have thought the last thousand years would have told them that.

(N.B.: I wonder if the French will ask themselves why they are hated?)

Peter - Ouch!

Tom:

Oh, don't take it personally. They weren't where I ever was either. Boy, that Bart has all the luck, doesn't he?

Yeah, some guys just got it.

It's very simple. Don't let on that you're American or Northern European, hang around with the other froggies and you're all set. Good French, a strong regional accent and knowledge of local food and wine go a long way, even if you look like Chris Farley.

I could get away with it the Cote d'Azur but not in Italy or Spain and, I would imagine, certainly not in Greece or Turkey. However, friends of mine who speak the local lingoes, and at least look a bit like the locals have the same experiences.