If my personal experience in working for several years with members of the Israeli high tech community is any indication, we here in the USA have little to fear from them. Of all the things that might make me think ill of Israel, working with Israelis is at the top of the list (which throws some cold water on the theory that if we all just knew each other better, we wouldn't fight).

A Russian, a Pole and an Israeli were all approached on the street by a canvasser who asked them'Excuse me, what is your opinion about democracy?'

The Russian said,'What's an opinion?'
The Pole said,'What's democracy?'
The Israeli said,'What's 'excuse me'?"

Israel is a nation of peasants, smart, hard-working peasants, but peasants nonetheless. It makes them difficult for most Americans to get along with. There's no deference, no courtesy, no etiquette, no manners, a lot of real bluntness. For me, it's easy, for most Americans, I can see the problem.

No Pole would ask that--they've been democrats since time immemorial.

Polish feudalism was almost as brutal as the Russian system. The only stab at democracy Poles experienced was in Austrian Poland after the 1848 revolutions. There was none for them in Prussian or certainly Russian domains. After WWI, the Poles quickly fell under military dictators who had a 'democratic' system about as free as that of Mugabe. This was replaced by Hitler and then by the Communists.

Do not even try to suggest that the membership of the feudal Polish Diet was anything other than a few titled aristocrats who inherited seats. It was like the old House of Lords, hardly a democratic institution.

It's important that we support the Poles in their efforts to become a strong and free nation, but we do not need to create Potemkin history in order to do it.

Actually, Bart, I like bluntness and don't care about deference. What I found difficult was the unjustified arrogance and self-centeredness. They made the "if it's not Scottish, it's crap!" guy look cosmopolitan. Let me give you an example.

We were arguing about some point of implementation. One of them e-mailed me that "we've been programming in Java for five years, so clearly we know better". I pointed out that five years ago, when they were just starting to learn Java, She Who Is Perfect In All Ways had been writing Java executors, so maybe the edge in expertise went the other way. I never got a reply and there was no change in attitude. It was typical of the presumption on their part of greater knowledge and expertise regardless of the facts. I can handle justifiably arrogant people, it's the delusionally arrogant that bug me.

I won't go in to the public lies and slanders that were thrown about by them, but my problem with them was absolutely not for the reasons you mention.

Not only did they support our democratic revolution but have glorious history of struggling for their own:

http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/Revolution.html

Put the Poles in as easy a geographic location as we got and they'd have done at least as well.

AOG,

it sounds like your were dealing with my cousin Aryeh, a Technion grad and systems analyst. LOL.:) There is no shortage of Israeli chauvinism, not unlike France. Also, don't think it was a 'Jewish' thing. If anything, they try even more of their nonsense with us non-Israeli Jews, thinking we'll give them a free pass.

The rude, arrogant Israeli is a classic stereotype, and like all good stereotypes has a significant factual basis.

As an aside, I just got back from Florida where my parents live, in a managed care facility near Jacksonville with a whole bunch of retired military and naval officers and their spouses. You have to dress for dinner, refer to people by rank if they request, etc. There are a lot of written invitations and thank you notes. When we were in line at Sunday Brunch,(my dad has an artificial leg and my mother has a portable oxygen tank) another couple pushed right by us, nearly knocking my mother to the ground. I looked at my dad and said ' You told me they were big on military courtesy here, but I didn't know you meant the Israeli military.' They thought that was pretty funny.

The average Pole was the victim of truly horrific oppression for much of history. You are however correct that had they not been surrounded by such rapacious neighbors, they would have done much better. They did have forward looking leaders like Casimir the Great at a time when much of Europe was ruled by gangsters like Richard de la Coeur de Lion and Philip Augustus.