March 2, 2005

SHALLOW, SO SHALLOW (via Best of the Web)

INTERVIEW: with Nancy Soderberg, author of "The Superpower Myth: The Use and Misuse of American Might" (The Daily Show With Jon Stewart)

Stewart: This book--it talks about the superpower myth of the United States. There is this idea, the United States is the sole superpower, and I guess the premise of the book is we cannot misuse that power--have to use it wisely, and not just punitively. Is that--

Soderberg: That's right. What I argue is that the Bush administration fell hostage to the superpower myth, believing that because we're the most powerful nation on earth, we were all-powerful, could bend the world to our will and not have to worry about the rest of the world. I think what they're finding in the second term is, it's a little bit harder than that, and reality has an annoying way of intruding.

Stewart: But what do you make of--here's my dilemma, if you will. I don't care for the way these guys conduct themselves--and this is just you and I talking, no cameras here [audience laughter]. But boy, when you see the Lebanese take to the streets and all that, and you go, "Oh my God, this is working," and I begin to wonder, is it--is the way that they handled it really--it's sort of like, "Uh, OK, my daddy hits me, but look how tough I'm getting." You know what I mean? Like, you don't like the method, but maybe--wrong analogy, is that, uh--?

Soderberg: Well, I think, you know, as a Democrat, you don't want anything nice to happen to the Republicans, and you don't want them to have progress. But as an American, you hope good things would happen. I think the way to look at it is, they can't credit for every good thing that happens, but they need to be able to manage it. I think what's happening in Lebanon is great, but it's not necessarily directly related to the fact that we went into Iraq militarily.

Stewart: Do you think that the people of Lebanon would have had, sort of, the courage of their conviction, having not seen--not only the invasion but the election which followed? It's almost as though that the Iraqi election has emboldened this crazy--something's going on over there. I'm smelling something.

Soderberg: I think partly what's going on is the country next door, Syria, has been controlling them for decades, and they [the Syrians] were dumb enough to blow up the former prime minister of Lebanon in Beirut, and they're--people are sort of sick of that, and saying, "Wait a minute, that's a stretch too far." So part of what's going on is they're just protesting that. But I think there is a wave of change going on, and if we can help ride it though the second term of the Bush administration, more power to them.

Stewart: Do you think they're the guys to--do they understand what they've unleashed? Because at a certain point, I almost feel like, if they had just come out at the very beginning and said, "Here's my plan: I'm going to invade Iraq. We'll get rid of a bad guy because that will drain the swamp"--if they hadn't done the whole "nuclear cloud," you know, if they hadn't scared the pants off of everybody, and just said straight up, honestly, what was going on, I think I'd almost--I'd have no cognitive dissonance, no mixed feelings.

Soderberg: The truth always helps in these things, I have to say. But I think that there is also going on in the Middle East peace process--they may well have a chance to do a historic deal with the Palestinians and the Israelis. These guys could really pull off a whole--

Stewart: This could be unbelievable!

Soderberg:---series of Nobel Peace Prizes here, which--it may well work. I think that, um, it's--

Stewart: [buries head in hands] Oh my God! [audience laughter] He's got, you know, here's--

Soderberg: It's scary for Democrats, I have to say.

Stewart: He's gonna be a great--pretty soon, Republicans are gonna be like, "Reagan was nothing compared to this guy." Like, my kid's gonna go to a high school named after him, I just know it.

Soderberg: Well, there's still Iran and North Korea, don't forget. There's hope for the rest of us.

Stewart: [crossing fingers] Iran and North Korea, that's true, that is true [audience laughter]. No, it's--it is--I absolutely agree with you, this is--this is the most difficult thing for me to--because, I think, I don't care for the tactics, I don't care for this, the weird arrogance, the setting up. But I gotta say, I haven't seen results like this ever in that region.

Soderberg: Well wait. It hasn't actually gotten very far. I mean, we've had--

Stewart: Oh, I'm shallow! I'm very shallow!

Soderberg: There's always hope that this might not work.


Ah, the hopeful Left...

Posted by Orrin Judd at March 2, 2005 12:37 PM
Comments

Nancy Soderberg was part of the NSC under Clinton, wasn't she?

Posted by: jim hamlen at March 2, 2005 12:47 PM

Well, The Daily Show is supposed to be a comedy show, and at least Stewart is self-aware enough to realize he may have been wrong about U.S. policy, even if he's not happy admitting it (but Ms. Soderberg will be happy to know you can already drive down the George W. Bush Freeway west of Waco. But no schools anywhere as of yet have the president's name).

Posted by: John at March 2, 2005 12:50 PM

Shallow? Try depraved.

Posted by: Luciferous at March 2, 2005 1:00 PM

Jon Stewart drives me crazy. He's a great interviewer but he's also a liberal hack. Even though he continually reminds the audience that he's doing "fake news" he's smart enough to know how powerful satire is as political persuasion. So he campaigned relentlessly for Jenjiss Kerry and against the successful outcome of the war in Iraq.

Yet, I'm still hopeful he'll get a clue. If he does wake up one day and understand what's really going on, I'm afraid he may be too embarrassed to show his face in public again.

Posted by: NKR at March 2, 2005 1:05 PM

Stewart has already turned his back on Kerry.

But this little episode is just as tawdry as Sandy Berger stuffing secrets in his undergootchies. I'll bet she appeared on the show because they couldn't get Joe Wilson that night.

Depraved doesn't begin to describe it.

Posted by: ratbert at March 2, 2005 1:11 PM

This is psychotic. Power, baby, power. I don't care if casualties increase geometrically or the country blows up or sinks into depression or is over-run by militant islamists. As long as all the bad stuff happens on the other guys watch. The President's policies can't be seen as successful. It's not good for the DEMOCRATS. An almost treasonable attitude from a former member of the executive branch.

Their politcal opponents have made the most difficult decisions regarding the shape of the post 9/11 world and they have been fought, denigrated, slandered and seen political differences degenerate into personal attacks and smears nearly unique to late 20th century American politics(post Watergate comes close). The left wing (80%) of the Democratic Party is approaching a state of criminal insanity (if treason is a crime). They should be locked up (or deported to France) for their own good, of course.

Posted by: Tom C., Stamford,Ct. at March 2, 2005 1:29 PM

I wish all this had happened in mid-october 2004.

I figure about 3 more Senate seats and maybe 15 more congressmen.

Not of course that I am so low and depraved, as to think of mere political advantage for Republicans. No, certainly not, never, only for what's best for the country. But still it does make one wonder.

Posted by: h-man at March 2, 2005 1:31 PM

Speaking of bad timing, Soderburg has a book out about the "Myth..etc" right as events are going against her entire premise. Wasn't there a former 60's radical who wrote a nostalgic paean to bombing the pentagon, that was released just days before 9/11.

Posted by: h-man at March 2, 2005 1:41 PM

This is just an aside, but has anyone ever actually tried to count the number of times Jon Stewart says "uh" during his show. It's a lot!

Posted by: Governor Breck at March 2, 2005 1:43 PM

What strikes me is that this may be a pretty important event. It could be a sign that a "tipping point" has been reached among the saner Democrats. The Daily Show is very hip and the fact that Jon Stewart, an avowed liberal and John Kerry voter, is now expressing publicly his realization and fear that Bush may have been (gasp!)right, means a lot. Democratic youth watch this show and cannot help but be affected by it.

I have to give Jon Stewart credit for having the guts to say what he did.

Posted by: L. Rogers at March 2, 2005 1:55 PM

-- "Here's my plan: I'm going to invade Iraq. We'll get rid of a bad guy because that will drain the swamp"--if they hadn't done the whole "nuclear cloud," you know, if they hadn't scared the pants off of everybody, and just said straight up, honestly, what was going on, I think I'd almost--I'd have no cognitive dissonance, no mixed feelings.--

You chose the WMD aspect, it was all there - but what is with a 30 yo. finding out for himself?


Posted by: Sandy P at March 2, 2005 2:25 PM

H-man you would be thinking of this article:


SEP 11, 2001
Life With the Weathermen: No Regrets for a Love of Explosives
By DINITIA SMITH

I don't regret setting bombs," Bill Ayers said. "I feel we didn't do enough." Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. The long curly locks in his Wanted poster are shorn, though he wears earrings. He still has tattooed on his neck the rainbow-and-lightning Weathermen logo that appeared on letters taking responsibility for bombings. And he still has the ebullient, ingratiating manner, the apparently intense interest in other people, that made him a charismatic figure in the radical student movement.

Now he has written a book, "Fugitive Days" (Beacon Press, September). Mr. Ayers, who is 56, calls it a memoir, somewhat coyly perhaps, since he also says some of it is fiction. He writes that he participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, the Pentagon in 1972. . .

I am sorry I do not have a URL. But the date above was the date it was published. The NYTimes was going to push the book. They had an interview with Ayers in the Sunday Magazine for the next weekend, which was already on the presses when the attack occured. I don't think he sold many copies of the book.

Posted by: Robert Schwartz at March 2, 2005 2:26 PM

It's not pretty, watching people's world views collapse all around them ...

And Stewart is HIGH if he thinks the "let's invade Iraq because we want to seed democracy in the Middle East" argument would have convinced Congress, or the American people, to support the war back in 2002/3. Pure 20/20 hindsight.

And at this point, what difference does it really make how Bush sold the war? How stupid does one have to be to imagine that politicians have always spoken nothing but the truth to us in the past? Even on matters as serious as entering war? Hahaha, that's a good one!

Posted by: Jeff Brokaw at March 2, 2005 2:35 PM

To paraphrase Golda Meier:

"Until the Democrats love their country more than they hate Bush/Republicans..."

Posted by: Rick T. at March 2, 2005 2:45 PM

For all the flapdoodlery on the air, TV is a ratings-oriented bottom line business. Even Bill Maher seems to be getting the picture. The consensus in America is changing and media that are trapped in a truly competitive environment will have to change with it. The old oligopoly conditions, under which Commisar Cronkite was able to persuade Americans to surrender in Vietnam by fixing the evidence, are no more.

Posted by: Bart at March 2, 2005 3:32 PM

I can only come to the conclusion that Rove has wrangled Stewart into his stable of provocatuers.

I thought it was hilarious.

Posted by: at March 2, 2005 5:17 PM

I can only come to the conclusion that Rove has wrangled Stewart into his stable of provocatuers.

I thought it was hilarious.

Posted by: at March 2, 2005 5:17 PM

It's right up there, with the New York Times mentioning the popularity of the Cuban Carnival
; the date February 24, 1996; the day Castro shot
down the BTR planes, and the 101st anniversary
of the Cuban version of Paul Revere's ride; the Yara Call;

Posted by: narciso at March 2, 2005 9:18 PM

h-man:

Luckily, the number of elected GOP politicians is a good barometer of the country's health.

Posted by: Matt Murphy at March 2, 2005 11:20 PM

Jon Stewart may be a wonderful satirist, but he isn't who I turn to for political insight. I don't quite get this "Bush is right" gloating.
I can't find one of my Democrat-minded friends who does not wish for, want, promote democracy worldwide. But what no one will or can ever know is if post-9-11, when the whole world was with us, is whether a "democracy" revolution in the Middle East could have been achieved without solo invasion, 1,400 and counting dead and 15,000 and counting maimed American soldiers? And how very revisionist everyone is - please refresh yourselves on the the quotes from W - and try to figure out why we invaded Iraq. The question is not: is promoting democracy right, the question is, was the "W" way the only way? I don't think so.

Posted by: Dcubed at March 14, 2005 12:29 PM

Dcubed:

It worked at minimal cost.

Posted by: oj at March 14, 2005 12:34 PM
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