March 12, 2005

FUNNY KIND OF FREELOADING:

Former President Bush Attends Citizenship Ceremony for US Soldiers (Greg Flakus, 11 March 2005, VOA News)

Former President George Bush was on hand Friday at his presidential library in College Station, Texas as a federal judge conferred citizenship on 47 immigrants who are currently serving in the U.S. military.

The new citizens hail from 27 nations and currently serve in the US Army, Navy and Air Force. More than half have served in Iraq or other combat areas. Former President George Bush assisted in presenting them with their citizenship papers and praised their dedication to their new country.

"To those gathered here today and so many more who are not here, 'duty, honor, country' is not merely a slogan but rather it is a timeless creed of service by which they live their lives," said Mr. Bush.

Later, speaking with reporters, the former president, who served as a US Navy pilot in WWII, said he was deeply moved by the citizenship ceremony.

"This was a very emotional service,” he added. “To see these people who are serving their country now becoming American citizens, I tell you, the tears began to flow. There is something so fundamental about this, something so strong for our country about this."


Tom Tancredo cried too.

Posted by Orrin Judd at March 12, 2005 1:18 PM
Comments

I'm not following your reasoning here.

Those servicemembers put their life on the line serving in the military to get US citizenship. If I were in the audience, I'd cry too out of gratefulness.

Those who cross our border illegally and demand jobs and free medical care here too, deserve no tears from me. Rage, maybe, but no tears.

Posted by: John J. Coupal at March 12, 2005 1:31 PM

"Demand jobs"?

Posted by: David Cohen at March 12, 2005 1:38 PM

David:

I was going to go with how much more dangerous the crossing is than military service.

Posted by: oj at March 12, 2005 1:42 PM

John,
I've yet to tire of their demands to clean the company bathrooms and bus the restaurant tables for $8.50hr. Those wonderful citizens that used to hold those positions spent all their time doing methamphetamine then racing around the building like rabid wolverines. How they were never able to actually clean the tables and restrooms while expending so much energy is a mystery.

Posted by: Pat H at March 12, 2005 1:49 PM

Wouldn't more Americans clean toilets for the higher wage that would be necessary to attract them than is possible with the constant downward pressure on wages for unskilled jobs caused by illegal immigrants? You are too tough on Congressman Tancredo! Do you favor allowing gatecrashers to sit in the stands for free to watch you in your Zamboni maneuvers?

Posted by: George at March 12, 2005 3:51 PM

George:

No. No American parent any longer considers manual labor a noble calling, let alone menial labor being acceptable.

Posted by: oj at March 12, 2005 4:08 PM

George,
I have no trouble finding persons to do the job. They just don't respect themselves or, as oj writes, the work enough to do it well. I could pay $2 per hour more and not get any better performance because doing a poor job is their way of showing contempt for their having to take the menial job in the first place. I pay cooks $11hr and there is no short supply of those either, but again, most citizens are hopping from job to job with no sense of pride in what they do. That isn't the case with immigrants.

Posted by: Pat H at March 12, 2005 4:22 PM

"David" "I was going to go with how much more dangerous the crossing is than military service"

Then you decided to let David say something witty and intelligent.

These people deserve our respect, and they are certainly as much or more American than the native born, but unfortunately they are totally irrelevant to the issue of open borders.

Posted by: h-man at March 12, 2005 6:59 PM

They're totally pertinent. Open borders let in folks just like our own ancestors, who had open borders.

Posted by: oj at March 12, 2005 7:41 PM

The creation of a 'Foreign Legion' of people willing to do a lot of dirty military jobs in exchange for citizenship isn't a bad idea, especially if we use the period of service to instruct them in English, civics and other aspects of life in America. If we were to install 'Foreign Legion' recruitment offices in any sizable Mexican town, as well as Santo Domingo, Bogota, Guatemala City, Manila and a host of other places we would be flooded with serious people.

As for people coming across the border, we need to be honest with ourselves and realize that we as Americans benefit from the cheap labor in a million ways. Do you really want to pay $8 for a Big Mac? Mexico and other nations benefit because of the remittances and the money the illegals bring back with them. We need to bring some organization to the process.

Posted by: Bart at March 12, 2005 7:45 PM

Our young adult citizens on meth may or may not accomplish something useful for society while scurrying around. Reckless parenting won't burden society with useless offspring for too long. Welfare benefits now have a lifetime limit.

oj: if our ancestors had open borders, what happened to people with syphilis, tuberculosis, schizophrenia, or just plain bad attitude when they hit Ellis Island?

Posted by: John J. Coupal at March 12, 2005 8:02 PM

"Open borders let in folks just like our own ancestors"

I don't know about you, but my ancestors were worthless bums....ah... let me rephrase that. If there had been a legal controlling authority, my ancestors might not have made the cut.

Posted by: h-man at March 12, 2005 8:11 PM

Bart
I've repeated my arguments against illegal immigration distorting effects on the economy, so I'm not going there again (although I reserve the right to go there when I feel like it). You are correct in your last sentence "bring some organization to the process".

OJ
Just the other day you were a born again envirionmentalist. Now you want to subject us to millions of polluting low riders.

Posted by: h-man at March 12, 2005 8:21 PM

i wouldn't mind hearing a serious explanation of the reasons immigrants can afford to sell their labor cheaper, when they are paying the same prices to exist. i know the mechanics, just not the reasoning behind it. in short, what is the medium term affect on the u.s.

Posted by: cjm at March 12, 2005 8:30 PM

"medium term affect on the u.s"

It benefits companies that are producing low value added products (for instance rubber toilet plungers). Doesn't do a thing for companies producing high value added products (for instance computer software, high tech machinery)

It also is undercutting efforts to move native born Americans off welfare and into jobs.

Had brilliant ideas to share with all here that would change OJ's mind once and for all, but I'm leaving for Taco Bell. Bye

Posted by: h-man at March 12, 2005 8:44 PM

H-man,
the jobs are out there if the idle poor are willing to work. It is welfare and the like that makes entry level work more trouble than it is worth.

Posted by: Pat H at March 12, 2005 8:51 PM

Frankly, given the choice between the American welfare underclass and Mexican campesinos, even at the same price a rational businessman would choose the Mexicans to do the cheap labor. The underclass is simply unwilling and incapable of doing the work for environmental and genetic reasons.

Immigrants sell their labor cheaper because they are willing to live under conditions which are in many ways far worse than even the poorest Americans. For example, it is commonplace in motels that cater to them for the illegals to sleep in shifts so that 8 or 10 can occupy a 2 bed room. Rice and beans on a hot plate aren't expensive and those in the food service industry eat in the workplace as a fringe. They also work two and three jobs.

Unhealthy immigrants were sent back, especially those with VD, even in the 1880-1920 period. Something like 25% didn't make the cut.

I'd like to see us work out some kind of contractual arrangement with Mexico particularly where those presently coming over as illegals were screened, assigned to specific jobs, and tagged somehow through DNA or retinal scans. If they commit a crime, they get deported and if found in America again are subject to immediate deportation without a hearing. All of this could be done by contract, obviating the need for the courts and the politicians to foul things up.

Posted by: Bart at March 12, 2005 9:47 PM

It's not the cost of their labor but the jobs they'll do that matters.

Posted by: oj at March 12, 2005 10:55 PM

h:

Precisely.

Posted by: oj at March 12, 2005 11:00 PM

John:

They slipped the Man a few lira.

Posted by: oj at March 12, 2005 11:01 PM

Isn't this one of the reasons Rome fell. Yes, I think it is.

Posted by: NC3 at March 13, 2005 8:25 AM

NC3:

Yes, Christianization sped the fall.

Posted by: oj at March 13, 2005 8:35 AM

NC3,

How is admitting Christians from Latin America into the US in a time of plenty similar to admitting murderous barbarians into the Roman Empire in a time of massive drought and upheaval?

If you were talking about Europe you would have a case, the Muslims are barbarians bent on destroying what is left of European Christendom and Europe is a zero-growth or shrinking zone.

Posted by: Bart at March 13, 2005 8:43 AM

For those in favor of open borders, how many of the more than a billion Chinese would you be willing to know that, for the price of transportation, they could become permanent residents of the United States?

Posted by: GER at March 13, 2005 8:10 PM

For those in favor of open borders, how many of the more than a billion Chinese would you be willing to know that, for the price of transportation, they could become permanent residents of the United States?

Posted by: GER at March 13, 2005 8:10 PM

All. The ones who come will be their best.

Posted by: oj at March 13, 2005 8:35 PM

GER,

As I told my old Hong Kong born college roommate, when the PRC takes over, I'll just give him a discount at the restaurant and dry cleaners I open in the ensuing American ghetto.

Posted by: Bart at March 13, 2005 8:49 PM
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