January 27, 2005

MAN: THE LINE DRAWER (Via Lileks)

Faith in the Foreground: Lance Wilder (Christian Hamaker, Crosswalk.com, January 15-17, 2002)

It was about that time that my future wife [Maria] moved out here. I was friends with her at art school. She also got a job on The Simpsons, and we started hanging out together. She was brought up Catholic; I was brought up in a little Baptist church in Massachusetts, and I’d never like really witnessed to anybody. I was just nervous she wouldn’t like me.

She was really opening up and finding out stuff and she and I started listening to tapes from the Christian radio station and reading and our Bible and going to church together. She became a Christian, and we really helped each other out. We got engaged after a couple years. We’ve been married for six years and have three kids.

You have no idea how confusing this sort of thing is to Jews.

Posted by David Cohen at January 27, 2005 9:39 AM
Comments

Oddly, I think it's even more confusing to us Catholics.

Posted by: MG2 at January 27, 2005 10:28 AM

Oddly, I think it's even more confusing to us Catholics.

Posted by: MG2 at January 27, 2005 10:30 AM

Yeah, I thought we were Christians too.

Posted by: jdkelly at January 27, 2005 11:04 AM

Chritians vs christians

Answering a need, some local clergy organized a charity to be run and funded through their churches. In a short time, the demands overwhelmed their funding and they wanted to apply for federal and state funds. To comply with federal and state regs, they organized a governing board to administer these funds to which I was appointed.

There were no Catholics nor Jews among the clergy in the organizing group. When I innocently asked why, I was told because they aren't (sorry, this was a verbal communication, so I don't know if they meant to say 'Christian' or "christian.'

In any case (pun intended) I didn't stay around to find out how it all worked out. If the clergy are bigoted and hate-filled, and these cretins were, what hope is there for their congregations.

So -- to end your confusion. In the eyes of official Christendom, you Catholics aren't christians. It's easier for you Jews because you already know that you're not christians.

As soon as I grew up I dropped all ties to organized religion and brought up my kids the same way and that's how they're bringing up their kids. Everyone in the line is a fine, honest, hardworking and law abiding citizen with zero intolerences towards others. I'm proud of them.

Posted by: erp at January 27, 2005 11:36 AM

I'm missing something. It says the wife was "brought up Catholic", not that she was a Catholic. I know plenty of atheists who were brought up Catholic.

Posted by: Annoying Old Guy at January 27, 2005 12:32 PM

....[weary Napoleon Dynamite sigh]....

Posted by: JimGooding at January 27, 2005 12:34 PM

Like me, Guy, but erp, jd and MG are having the best of this argument.

I have spent the last week listening to sermons on the Calvary Salvation Network.

They definitely do NOT consider Catholics to be Christians. In fact, they're very suspicious even of each other. (Christians may not be good for anything else but they're good for a laugh. I'm going to have to stop listening in the car while I'm driving, though, or I'm gonna have a wreck and meet my Maker prematurely.)

I recommend CSN for all moderate Christians. It may not shake their own faith, but it oughta straighten them out about why some Unchosen People do not consider Christianity a good thing.

Posted by: Harry Eagar at January 27, 2005 3:27 PM

Here is a Google search. It appears that the almost uncontradicted opinion of those who care enough to write on the subject is that Catholics are not Christian. There are various reasons given, with varying degrees of rationality. Most of the reasons given are hard to take seriously: Maryolatry, the idolatrous Mass, Pope worship, etc. (Although as a conservative, it's nice to see these age-old arguments brought onto the web.)

The one reason given that I am not qualified to dismiss is that Catholics believe in salvation through grace and works, while "Christians" believe that salvation comes solely through grace. (Or, as was said in one article, Catholics only give charity to get into heaven.)

Posted by: David Cohen at January 27, 2005 6:50 PM

"He drew a circle that shut me out:
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took him in."
- Edwin Markham

I am reminded also of a remark attributed to Charles H. Spurgeon, an English Baptist preacher in the 19th century: "I will have three big surprises when I get to heaven. There will be some there that I didn't think would be there; there will be some missing that I thought would be there; and the biggest surprise of all will be that I am there."

Posted by: Henry IX at January 27, 2005 7:15 PM

Harry:
When you do meet your maker, and if by his infinite grace he welcomes you into the joy of his eternal presence (this is meant as a theological statement, not a personal jab, please refrain from laughing and/or shouting too loud, as there are those in heaven who think that they are the only ones there. Actually, thankfully, I believe that such infantile divisions will be meaningless amongst the saints in heaven (regardless of who is in the crowd).

Oh, and one more thing, please stop listening to such garbage.

Posted by: Dave W. at January 28, 2005 12:17 AM

Dave, if the only Christians I encountered were the ones on brothersjuddblog, I'd start forgetting how really, really awful some (many, in fact) of the others are.

The question is, how important are the Christians of CSN?

I think they're pretty important. You'll notice I don't rail against the Doukobohrs, though they are undoubtedly Christians and dangerous, because they're marginal.

If Doukobohrism starts growing at the rate of, say, Mormonism, you'll hear more about them from me.

Posted by: Harry Eagar at January 28, 2005 4:23 PM

Interesting stuff Harry! I just finished reading about the Calvary Satellite Network and the Doukhobors on the net. Hard to tell how important and/or dangerous each group is w/o some further study.

Posted by: Dave W. at January 28, 2005 7:41 PM
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