So can we NOW set up those re-education camps? Please?

Regarding Franken's second "reflection", wasn't it Wendy's chow that Kerry & Co. eschewed in favor of shrimp vindaloo? How about the mansions, the gold-digging, the wind surfing, the Lear jet, the $8,000 bicycle? Franken also thinks of himself as a comedian.

Air America? In utter honesty, I'd forgotten thay were still (barely) on the spectrum.

Hey Al:

I hear the sweet sound of B-52s on their way to Fallujah..

by God, I love it so!

Bruce - They'll probably get more listeners now that Republicans are in the majority. The left will be trying to make sense of this strange new world, and misery loves company.

The Deomcrats always proclaimed themselves to be the party that cares about "the people", regular folks with regular problems, etc., but it turns out they are the party that believes "the people" are not intelligent, that they can present any number of ever-changing lies to "them" and "they" won't get it.

I think they got it...

Oh, come on. It's not as if there is some portion of the right-wing media spectrum--especially the numberless AM radio counterparts to Al Franken and Air America--would be any more reflective in the same situation. After all, that isn't their job.

M. - I do think they are trying to be reflective, as I noted. I disagree on your last line - it is their job, unless they are mere propagandists and mean to go out of business. Their listeners must be looking for insight, and they must deliver it.

Franken also thinks of himself as a comedian.

First time I saw or heard of Al Franken was on Saturday Night Live once. His entire act was quoting from the manifesto of the Revolutionary Communist Party.

Time has shown that was no act.

The Deomcrats always proclaimed themselves to be the party that cares about "the people"...

...in the sense of all those People's Democratic Republics of the last century.

Such as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and its Dear Leader.

PJ:

I have to disagree. Their listeners are looking for a combination of (1) reinforcement of their own political views and prejudices, and (2) entertainment. What little I've heard of Air America sounds identical in both respects to right-wing radio, so I think their business model is sound. And as with right-wing radio, from Limbaugh through Hannity to Savage, they are propagandists precisely to the degree one decides to take them seriously.

I assumed your "reflective" comment was sarcastic because "Bush won because the American people were stupid enough to believe the tissue of lies put forth by the Republican propaganda machine" just doesn't seem all that reflective to me. "Reflective" would be "A significant proportion of voters failed to respond to our message because..."

I enjoy listening to Limbaugh & Hannity because they do offer insight. I agree that both your (1) and (2) are present, but intelligence and insight are too.

As for Air America, after Franken made all the points listed above, his sidekick, a woman whose name I don't know, said, "Well, don't you think the people may have said to themselves, the Republicans are presenting a vision of America that is appealing, and voted for that," a suggestion Franken discounted. And they had a Republican guest for 5 minutes who argued a little weakly with Franken. So there's some effort to understand the other side, and some thought that what's good on the other side may explain Republican success rather than just what's wicked. It's only a few thoughts, but compared to the non-stop propaganda & incitement they had leading up to the election, it's much more reflective.

I'm in a reflective mood myself. I'm also badly hung over and a little punchy. But here goes anyway:

The morning after the battle the tribe, victorious, gathers around their chieftain on a hillock. Their banners fly in the wind, and the rising sun glints on the tips of their spears.

PJ:

I've had the chance to hear a fair amount of Limbaugh (although not for several years) and Hannity (more recently). "Intelligence and insight" can be found on both shows, but it's a rare gleam among the dirt.

I really can't speak for "intelligence and insight" on Air America, because I haven't heard enough of it. What little I have heard sounds like more of the same, just from the other side of the aisle.

Perhaps this just goes with the territory; one can hardly expect radio infotainers of the right or the left to fill 3 hours of airtime every day with deep and thoughtful analysis. But I think it more likely that they can't go that route because it's just too boring. If they were too reflective they would be asking something of their audience beyond "We're right; they're wrong." And then they're _really_ out of business. There just aren't that many people willing to tune in their radios and be challenged.

People don't look to be challenged, I agree, but they do look to have their understanding extended. This happens most easily when the person they're listening to is working from assumptions and a worldview they share. Most people don't spend all day reading about issues on the Internet. They know a little, and pick up more from talk radio. I think for the audience these shows target, they do offer insight.

When I read this kind of crap, I really resent the notion that because I am a conservative, that somehow I am dumber, more ignorant than the liberals.

Maybe, I should take out an ad in the Times, challenging Al Franken to a wine tasting, a chess match and a trivia contest. Then, we'll find out who's really smarter.

Actually, Bart, Franken's pretty combative. You should take out an ad challenging him to a duel -- at midnight, with chainsaws, in a coal cellar. When he's dumb enough to show up, your point's proved.