The Caliphascists have been lulled in to a false sense of invulnerability due to the phenomenal restraint of the Israeli and American Streets. The history of ethnic and sectarian strife is just a bit bloodier in Europe.

I told you that the Europeans had some more ethnic cleansing ability in them. You've pronounced their demise too soon.

Between Fortyn and Van Gogh, the Dutch choose strange heros. Despite all the publicity about Van Gogh's murder, I've yet to see a thoughtful comment on the film that so stirred the pot. As far as I can tell, it resembles a German film from the thirties on how the Jews poisoned wells, or a film from the old South on how all blacks lie in wait for white women. Or maybe a good tale on Christ's and Mary Magdalene's sexual relationship.

But, of course, secular humanists aren't into blood libels, just objective facts.

The Balkans was just a warm-up act before the main event.

"Europe: Bigger Bloodbaths for a Brighter Tomorrow"

Peter, I haven't watched it, but it's online here:

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2655656

Peter,

The content of the film is not important. Murder is rather a harsh "thumbs down" review.

The important point is not that a few allegedly extremist Muslims go about murdering infidels. The point is that the allegedly mainstream or unextreme Muslims are more concerned about the 'injustice' of the reaction against the 'extremists' than they are about the hijacking of their supposedly peaceful religion.

Orrin is dead wrong when he says Islamicism is not Islam. They are identical, and until the infidels recognize that, they cannot mount a meaningful defense, much less a counterattack.

It's the same with Falluja. The important point is not that the Marines are (with considerable difficulty) clearing Falluja. The important point is that the supposed supporters of the supposed democratic new government ran like rabbits.

It is becoming clearer by the day that, as people like Tibi said years ago, Arab Moslems have no interest in democracy.

Harry,

You are 100% correct. We are in nothing less than a fight for our cultural survival, and anything we need to do to survive is fine with me.

Harry:

You can take the boy out of the racist South, but you can't take the racism out of the Southern boy.

TedM

Nope, I'm not buying that. Hang the murderers, draw a few lines in the sand for the Islamicists, and then ask yourself how a million immigrants became so isolated and alienated that the majority thinks mosque-burning is legitimate or excusable protest They don't in the States, Canada or Australia.

The content of the film is very important. Propaganda kills.

Its about time they got serious in Europe. They havent had a good ethnic cleaning in a decade.

/sarcasm off

On the other hand, I won't be shedding any tears the moon worshippers.

Welcome to EUtopia

OJ:

Words are a valuable addition to sentence meaning.

Harry said "Arab Moslems"

Pardon me if I am confused, Islam is a religion, not a race.

Meaning Harry's comment had no racist content whatsoever.

Jeff:

Yes, he didn't say Muslims, because that's obviously idiotic--most Muslims live in democracies. He had to say Arab Muslims because the Arab nations are still evolving towards democracy--with Tunisia, Morocco, Palestine and a few others so close as to make his point nonsensical anyway. He was being precisely racist.

a bit of thought before typing might help.

"Orrin is dead wrong when he says Islamicism is not Islam."

I think "Islamicism does not necessarily have to become the future of Islam" is the more correct way to think about it. We can influence the future of Islam. OJ, do you agree?

America and American are constantly jeered at in Europe as unsophisticated, intolerant, racist, and shooting from the hip. In the wake of September 11, when we lost 3,000 souls in a chilling, vicious mass murder, Americans were astonishingly controlled and tolerant of the Muslims in our midst. One film director is murdered in Holland and the Dutch start torching mosques.

Mind you, in addtion to what seemed to have been a carelessly provocational film on women in Islam, this van Gogh appeared to have been quite vicious in his past remarks toward Christianity and Judiasm as well. It seems to me he just despised any religion. Not saying he deserved it, but did he realize he was gargling and spraying gasoline into a cigarette lighter? Orin?

It's also remarkable that after he'd been shot several times and was being carved up with a knife, he still wanted to "discuss" things with his murderer ("Please don't do it; we can still talk about it.") Only a European could think that someone who shot him full of bullets on a busy street and then whipped out a knife and calmly approached could be talked out of doing what he came to do. The naivete (arrogance?) is breathtaking.

george:

Fortuyn and van Gogh fostered a climate of hate then got caught in the storm.

We are influencing Islam more than Islamicism is.

Harry isn't a racist.

He just really, really hates religion.

oj,

That's nonsense. Islam as practiced throughout the world from Mindanao to Michigan has no theology other than the murder of non-believers. It is a pestilence and should be eradicated from the civilized world, its adherents shipped back to the desert outhouse where they belong.

Nurses in Philipines, teachers in Thailand, teenage girls in Australia, filmmakers in Holland, office workers in NYC, the list of the victims of that mental illness called Islam is endless.

Bart speaks the truth.

Why just this morning I whacked three infidels who looked at me funny.

Bart

That's idiotic. There are a few radicals, sort of the Islamic version of Marxism working through the system. The dead, though each is a tragedy, represent less than an hour's worth of abortions in the West.

Ali:

Arabs too. And Poles. Germans....

"... a bit of thought before typing might help."

Perhaps you should do some thinking.

Harry clearly didn't refer to Arab Christians, or Jews, for just two instances.

He was clearly speaking of a subset of Arabs identified by religion.

After all, when discussing terrorism over the last, say, thirty years, 90% of the terrorists have two qualifiers: Arab & Muslim. That is a simple observation.

Ali:
Isn't the Quran pretty directive about the fate of infidels and apostates?

Well, what I wrote, trying as always to be precise, was 'extremist Muslims,' which I declared to be all of them, speaking generally, and acknowledging individual but insignificant exceptions.

I said Tibi said Arab Moslems are not interested in democracy. Evidence shows he was right. Tibi might be a racist, I don't know. He's an Arab Moslem.

I don't believe any significant number of Moslems are interested in democracy.

Harry:

Your initial point was, by your own words, racial: "Arab Moslems have no interest in democracy"

Your subsequent one, wisely dropping the racist angle, is foolish.

Peter B,

Did you bother watching the film before mouthing off against it? Your comments are amazingly uninformed or willfully slanderous/stupid.

The film is surprisingly tame, given van Gogh's reputation as a provocateur.

Nevertheless, it would not surprise me to find five to ten percent of the Muslims in the Netherlands answering yes if asked whether the murder was justified.

Ask them the question, all one million or so of them. Then kick out each and everyone who replies yes. No appeals.

OJ:

Considering your calling Chinese "uncreative" last week, you desperately need to clean your finger before pointing out someone else's spots.

Harry's point is quite valid. To the extent--far from insignificant--Muslims believe the Quran is soup-to-nuts Revealed Truth, that belief is incompatible with freedom of thought, hence freedom of any kind. Among Muslims, it seems that depth of belief is most pronounced among Arabs.

Hence Arab Muslims.

I won't hazard a guess whether Muslims in general are ready to think on their own two feet, but Wahabbists (Arabs all) are going to have to ditch their entire theological outlook.

Harry's meaning was clear, your reading tortured.

Jeff:

Yes, I'm a racist. Harry claims not to be. Yet he expresses obviously racist notions. I don't care about his racism,, we all are, just his self-denial.

"Isn't the Quran pretty directive about the fate of infidels and apostates?"

Long as they pay their taxes and don;t break the law they're to be protected.

Ali:

I'm not talking about Christians and Jews, but infidels and apostates.