November 4, 2004


A Blue City (Disconsolate, Even) Bewildered by a Red America (JOSEPH BERGER, 11/04/04, NY Times)

Striking a characteristic New York pose near Lincoln Center yesterday, Beverly Camhe clutched three morning newspapers to her chest while balancing a large latte and talked about how disconsolate she was to realize that not only had her candidate, John Kerry, lost but that she and her city were so out of step with the rest of the country.

"Do you know how I described New York to my European friends?" she said. "New York is an island off the coast of Europe."

Like Ms. Camhe, a film producer, three of every four voters in New York City gave Mr. Kerry their vote, a starkly different choice from the rest of the nation. So they awoke yesterday with something of a woozy existential hangover and had to confront once again how much of a 51st State they are, different in their sensibilities, lifestyles and polyglot texture from most of America. The election seemed to reverse the perspective of the famous Saul Steinberg cartoon, with much of the land mass of America now in the foreground and New York a tiny, distant and irrelevant dot.

With a Republican mayor in a state with a Republican governor.

Posted by Orrin Judd at November 4, 2004 3:23 PM

We have no Berlin Wall keeping the Ms. Camhes of the world here. If she wants to live in Europe or Canuckistan or Timbuktu, it's fine with me. Frankly, we need fewer rather than more lefty film producers.

Posted by: Bart at November 4, 2004 3:42 PM

You would have thought 9-11 would have led NYC to back Bush but it became apparent late in the campaign that many have begun to think 9-11 an aberration and that backing Bush was not necesary.

Posted by: AWW at November 4, 2004 4:01 PM

Was the War in Iraq a positive or negative for Bush in this election? (not asking if he should have or not)

Posted by: h-man at November 4, 2004 4:18 PM


A significant negative. Recall that the last two wartime presidents weren't even able to run for re-election--Truman and LBJ.

Posted by: oj at November 4, 2004 4:26 PM

NewYorkers are Spaniards. Yes,they were hit,and if the US is hit again it will most likely be in NYC. They are afraid and think the enemy will leave them alone if they don't fight back.

Posted by: NKR at November 4, 2004 4:41 PM

Bloomberg and Pataki are RINOs.

Hell, Bloomberg is a dem who switched cos there were 6 other dems in the primary.

Posted by: Sandy P at November 4, 2004 5:09 PM

We here in Staten Island as always did our part for the cause, just as we did for Sir Rudy every time he ran for office ..........
That is to vote republican in this bastion of liberalism!!
Viva la Bush revolution!!lol

Posted by: Bill from NYC at November 4, 2004 5:12 PM

"NewYorkers are Spaniards. Yes,they were hit,and if the US is hit again it will most likely be in NYC. They are afraid and think the enemy will leave them alone if they don't fight back"

I dare you to say that around myself or my friends who had to to listen to the bagpipes and watch coffins with no bodies in them marched out for their final resting place every weekend months!!
You would be dropped on your butt faster then you can say mommy!!

Posted by: Bill from NYC at November 4, 2004 5:22 PM


I did. I live here. That's how I know.

Posted by: NKR at November 4, 2004 5:35 PM

Ya can't lump everyone in New York like that........
Some friends of mine still have problems dealing with working in the pit!!
They know as I that we are going to get hit again in NYC that's just the fact we live with every day. I know that another friend I grew up with may not come home at night for good....
They still put on their vests, load their 9mm, others put on their bunker gear and do the jobs that they love (that includes protecting New Yorkers who still don't get it)everyday.......
Some New Yorkers are walking the wall watching out for the wolves!!

Posted by: Bill from NYC at November 4, 2004 5:46 PM


I know what you're saying and I know some of the people working on the front lines too. I know some people who barely escaped the towers and some who were fortunate to be late to work that day.

I can't even blame New Yorkers who feel the way I expressed above. Red Staters are not likely to have planes flown into their local Wal-Mart (how's that for lumping?) but NYC has so many obvious targets that residents have to be aware that there's a target on each and every one of us.

Most New Yorkers are liberals. They flirted with Bush's offensive strategy in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, but it's hard to break the habit. I think they have decided that Spain's strategy is better. The reality of Spain's situation (just foiled a plan for an even larger attack) is not being reported to them.

I don't mean to lump all NYCers together. I know there are many who understand the reality of this war. But there are many more who think appeasement is a strategy that will keep them safe.

Sorry for the ramble.

Posted by: NKR at November 4, 2004 5:59 PM

New Yorkers (and I used to be one) unfortunately have an undo reverence for both the big media celebrities who troll their neighborhoods and for the intellectuals who inhabit parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn Heights. It's a slightly more sophisticated version of the "star struck" Southern Californian stereotype that dates from the rise of Hollywood 80 years ago, and in terms of the way people vote, it has an even worse effect.

I doubt many Los Angelenos hang on Barbara Streisand's latest politican musings or mold their politics because of what Ed Asner or Mike Ferrell say, but there are a lot of people in New York who will follow the lead of the New York Times, the networks and the other cultural elites on politics because ... well, because they're the cultural elites. In the case of Sept. 11, they're willing to believe them more than their own eyes if they happen to travel down to Vescey and Church streets. If the New York Times says Iraq wasn't involved in the war on terror -- even if the probe of the 1993 WTC bombing under President Clinton showed Saddam provided support for that attack -- or if CBS says Bush is hiding National Guard memos, those facts must be the truth, because they're the New York Times and they're CBS, so they have to be right. And if they hate George W. Bush, that must also be the right thing to do.

Posted by: John at November 4, 2004 10:00 PM

Dollars to doughnuts that this woman is not a native New Yorker. She is probably from some small town in a Red State who was overwhelmed at the big city and never came back to earth.

I doubt if a native New Yorker moans about what Europe thinks of the Big Apple.

Posted by: jim hamlen at November 4, 2004 11:20 PM

"...clutched three morning newspapers to her chest while balancing a large latte..."


Posted by: Peter B at November 5, 2004 1:10 PM