October 14, 2004
SQUARING THE CIRCLE OF ANTI-LIFE:
Transcript: Third Presidential Debate (Arizona State University, Tempe, Ariz., October 13, 2004, Debate Transcript From FDCH E-Media, Inc.)
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry, a new question for you.The New York Times reports that some Catholic archbishops are telling their church members that it would be a sin to vote for a candidate like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem-cell research.
What is your reaction to that?
KERRY: I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, as do many.
I believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith.
I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor. And that's why I support that.
Now, I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade.
The president has never said whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court he wants to.
I will not. I will defend the right of Roe v. Wade.
Now, with respect to religion, you know, as I said, I grew up a Catholic. I was an altar boy. I know that throughout my life this has made a difference to me.
And as President Kennedy said when he ran for president, he said, "I'm not running to be a Catholic president. I'm running to be a president who happens to be Catholic."
My faith affects everything that I do, in truth. There's a great passage of the Bible that says, "What does it mean, my brother, to say you have faith if there are no deeds? Faith without works is dead."
And I think that everything you do in public life has to be guided by your faith, affected by your faith, but without transferring it in any official way to other people.
That's why I fight against poverty. That's why I fight to clean up the environment and protect this earth.
That's why I fight for equality and justice. All of those things come out of that fundamental teaching and belief of faith.
But I know this, that President Kennedy in his inaugural address told all of us that here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own. And that's what we have to -- I think that's the test of public service.
This whole answer is incoherent, but this is spectacularly so: "I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor." The Senator is well aware, as a Catholic, of what God says about the matter. if Mr. Kerry is truly a man of faith, which his positions seem to call into legitimate question, then conforming his works and his public life to that faith requires opposing abortion. Posted by Orrin Judd at October 14, 2004 11:10 AM
I think we're all sick of all of this. I am. We have watched JKerry say wild and crazy things as though it makes sense, and those who happen to hate GBush cheer him on with glee. We have seen lying emails and fake draft cards sent to young people to scare them, and now we see the dems raising money to protest a Bush win and call it illegitimate. There really isn't much we can do except sigh and say, democracy at work but not at its finest. I'm an independent voter, but Bush is my guy this election. The behavior of the other side - for whom I have often voted - is unconscionable and frankly embarassing to watch.
Posted by: D. L. Meadows at October 14, 2004 11:49 AMThe Catholic Church certainly has the right to police its own members, and mete out the appropriate punishment as it sees fit. They could deny Kerry communion as some bishops. Presumably, they could even excommunicate him formally.
Kerry's ability to spout utter gibberish is remarkable. The stock answer is so easy,' I am a Catholic and believe abortion is murder. However, there are religious traditions in this nation which disagree with that formulation. As President I will respect those traditions and not appoint judges who will illegalize matters like abortion which a significant number of religious Americans believe should be legal. I am not running to be a sectarian President but instead to be President of all Americans(add stock hokey phrase here)'
Posted by: Bart at October 14, 2004 12:01 PMBart:
You said what I was going to, only much better.
Posted by: Jeff Guinn at October 14, 2004 12:04 PMeven the demons believe -- and shudder
Posted by: JImGooding at October 14, 2004 12:10 PMAs I said at my place, the two halves of that answer are worse than incoherent, they're contradictory.
I wouldn't want to be him when it comes time to stand before the throne.
Posted by: H.D. Miller at October 14, 2004 12:17 PM"not appoint judges who will illegalize matters like abortion which a significant number of religious Americans believe should be legal"
Bart I would not accuse you or Jeff of gibberesh, however does the above statement mean that Kerry should not appoint judges who would correct, the OBVIOUSLY incorrect Roe v Wade decision, which removed the right of a majority in any jurisdiction to enact laws against abortion. In overturning Roe v. Wade the courts would not be "illegalizing" anything.
Posted by: h-man at October 14, 2004 12:19 PMOrrin:
It's a democracy. God's only got one of the three votes.
Bart:
Change the argument to slavery' go back 150 years ago and put these words in the mouth of Abraham Lincoln. I understand putting aside your beliefs on relatively minor issues, but murder?
Posted by: at October 14, 2004 12:21 PMI'm not agreeing with Kerry, only trying to create a decent way for him to express himself. He would present himself as defending the status quo ante(as defined by Roe) from the 'barbarian hordes' like the evil Religious Right. (sarcasm intended)
My view is that Roe was wrong and that abortion should be left to the States. There is no Constitutional reason why Utah and New York need the same law on the matter.
Posted by: Bart at October 14, 2004 12:33 PMBart:
And the fact that instead of "Utah and New York" drawing up their abortion laws openly within their legislature, they (and all of us) have had abortion-on-demand forced on us by Supreme Court Decree from On High.
That's where a LOT of the resentment and JIHAD! attitude comes from.
If that's the way it's done, then let's play the game their way: throw in with the Christian Reconstructionists, take over ourselves, and rule by OUR Decrees From On High, showing exactly as much consideration and mercy to them as they showed to us.
i.e.
Commander Torquemada,
The LORD's Theocratic Republic of Gilead,
PRAISE THE LOORD!
"I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor."
Following the Senator's ridiculous answer my wife's immediate question was also telling: "Um. What about the father?"
Posted by: John Resnick at October 14, 2004 2:18 PMPerhaps Kerry doesn't wish to return to a time when the only people who could afford to terminate an unwanted pregnancy were rich kids who drove their girlfriends to Mexico.
I'm not where Bush stands on this though.
Posted by: Jimmy at October 14, 2004 2:33 PMWhy would abortion be a sectarian issue? Opposition to abortion is not limited to Catholics or even Christians.
Posted by: Joseph Hertzlinger at October 14, 2004 3:04 PMMost mainline Protestant(think National Council of Churches) denominations are pro-choice.
OJ,
Most Orthodox and Hasidic Jews are pro-life, and that is the official position of the Orthodox Union.
Posted by: Bart at October 14, 2004 3:52 PMOJ,
There are 250,000 Lubavitcher Hasidim alone. Orthodoxy and Hasidism taken together probably accounts for a solid 1/3 of the Jewish community, and increasing.
Posted by: Bart at October 14, 2004 3:59 PMSo that would be .01%
Posted by: oj at October 14, 2004 4:10 PMOJ,
Actually that would mean about 2 million people, and Jewish adults always vote.
Posted by: Bart at October 14, 2004 4:16 PMoj:
Bart's math is correct. It's .1%, not .01%.
Posted by: Fred Jacobsen (San Fran) at October 14, 2004 5:14 PMWhy is abortion a religious issue? If killing a baby outside the mother's womb is murder, wouldn't killing it inside the womb also be murder? It is not a matter of faith. We know what is in the womb, and killing it is murder.
Posted by: Vince at October 15, 2004 2:38 AM"I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor."
Didn't God make his wishes known when the baby was conceived?