I disagree strongly with Mr. Eland. The Islamicists may not be a threat on their own, but they're not on their own: they're available for hire to any nation-state that wants to attack the West. And if we do nothing, hostile nation-states like China, North Korea, Iran, and Syria will eventually attack the West with nuclear weapons delivered stealthily by terrorists.

The weakness of identifying the threat with radical Islam is that it hides the true, and larger, threat from totalitarian ideologies of all stripes working in partnership to attack us.

They don't need the resources world-wide.

Never underestimate your enemy. We have already been surprised at their capabilities. The world, not just America, can not afford to ignore them any longer. They are a real danger to everyone.

They've blown up a few things, killed some people, and in the process lost sympathetic governments in two countries while seeing those of at least three others turn from opposed to us or ambivalent into our allies. It would be hard to lower our estimation as far as it should be reduced.

OJ: This is whistling past the grave yard. Al Qaeda are not live and let live people. The existence of kufirs is affront to them. The corruption of the House of Sa'ud is the grounds for its extermination.

The reason for bin Laden's demand of United States to leave Arabia was not ritual purity, it was to deprive the House of Sa'ud of a prop.

It is not clear to me if bin Ladden is a principal or is merely an agent. It is entirely possible, even likely, that he is a front for members of the Sa'ud and Wa'hib families who are determined to wrest control of Arabia away from the current incumbents.

What is clear is that many of his followers believe that this jihad will only end when the umma is led by a Kallif, the entire world has joined Dar Al'Islam and all kufirs have made submission (dihimmi).

Guys like Eland are are inhaling their own vapors and need to be detoxed before they are let out in public:

"If neoconservative doubt what bin Laden says makes him mad, then they should read the opinion polls in the Islamic world. U.S. meddling is the root of the general hostility, which spawns anti-U.S. terrorism."

Who is he kidding. The average Arab cannot tell his right hand from his left (Johnah 4:11). Most of them are pretty sure that the Israelis attacked the US on 9/11 and the Saudis over the last couple of months. Given their sophisticated factual understanding of the modern world how can their conclusions be taken for anything other than pure moonbeams.

Robert:

So what? They can't win and they aren't a serious threat in geopolitical terms.

Found it The Khilafah Homepage

Like The Gambler says: "Read 'em weep."

OJ:

They can't win. but we have meet the enemy and they is us. We can loose.

Robert:

What does our losing have to do with Islamicism though? Europe is toast, but not because of Islam.

We can lose to them. Our successes and their losses haven't stopped Iran and Syria from supporting the terrorists. Let's finish them off while they're down.

pj:

How long do you figure the Ba'athists in Syria would last when we do turn our attrention to them? days? maybe a week or two? And how many Iranians support the mullahcracy?

It's already over.

OJ: It is now you whistling past the graveyard. If Europe is doomed (this is your hypothethis I believe it is too early in the fight to call it) and the US turns hard left and takes a nap, the strategic equation has been altered. It is only the most foolish of commanders who thinks that he cannot lose.

I believe in historical inevitability only when it is well armed, well trained, well motivated, well financed, and backed by political will that is equally stout.

Robert:

I agree. What does our turning left like Europe have to do with al Qaeda?

OJ: it gives them the time and freedom to gather their forces for the next attack. They will say to each other: "See they did back down, they are worthlees and weak, we will win."

Try a thought experiment. Imagine that you are a functionary in the court of Mehtmet the Conquerer in the year 1454, the court has moved to just conquered Istanbul. Write a memo to your boss explaining why the Ferengi are about to eat his lunch.

Robert:

They'll say this in their cave?

>So what? They can't win and they aren't a
>serious threat in geopolitical terms.

But how much damage can they do (i.e. nuke, satan bug, etc) in the time they have?

Dismissing a fifth of mankind as of no consequence seems odd from someone who is obsessed by demographic trends.

If every fifth man's hand was against me, I'd consider it worth taking seriously, as I do.

It's true that the local burglars cannot steal everything I own, but that does not mean I would shrug it off if they stole part of it.

Islam is the enemy of civilization. Whether civilization will win in the long run is not important if we are killed along the way.

Harry:

Precisely the opposite. That you or I might die along the way means little given that Islamicism can't win. It's an entirely manageable and relatively minor problem.

OJ:

When they are dead, we will have won. While they draw breath, they can regroup and attack again. If we let up for four years, we will have made a terrible error.

Do not hold the Triumph until the victory is won.

All glory is fleeting. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.

Globalization dooms them. We can hasten the process a little, but need not.

I'd like to see globalization dooming any of them a little for starters.

Think like Reagan. Ask yourself, would I be better off or worse off if I woke up tomorrow in a world without any Muslims in it?

To ask the question is to answer it.

Harry:

Like any living thing I think the world would be better off if I woke up tomorrow with only people exactly like me in it. That's not an option. So we'll Reform Islam until it's compatible with Christian values.

OJ: "Globalization dooms them. We can hasten the process a little, but need not."

RSS: "I believe in historical inevitability only when it is well armed, well trained, well motivated, well financed, and backed by political will that is equally stout."

OJ: "Like any living thing I think the world would be better off if I woke up tomorrow with only people exactly like me in it"

RSS: Like most men I think the world would be better off if most of the people were exactly like Nicole Kidman. If they were all like OJ (or me for that matter), I would shot myself.

RSS:

If we were all that was left we'd happily make the monster with two backs (at least one hairy). Humans adjust rather easily.

Islam has proven very resistant to reform so far.

Muslims don't think the way we do, so they are not motivated by what motivates me and you.

Their idea of reform is the end of Christianity.

Yes, but their ideas have lost and ours have won.

We can not afford to ignore our enemies and I don't mean to placate them either. No doubt they can not beat us face to face. However, their strategy is to just keep pecking away at us bit by bit. Also to win the support of the rest of the world against us or have you not noticed lately.

Jean:

The whole world is always against us...as they become more like us.

OJ: I may have to shoot myself right now!

At least wait until after we share the love that dare not speak its name.

Atomic bombs are great equalizers.

Since I value Islam at 0, swapping it for, say, even N.H., would be a loss.

Harry:

Yes, but you're a hater. Most of us value human life.

Death before Dishonor! Nicole, I will Always love only you!

Despiser.

I only hate Germans.

and Arabs and Muslims and Christians and Poles....