June 1, 2004
DOUBLE SECRET VETO:
Poland demands minority veto in Constitution (Mark Beunderman, 01.06.2004, EUObserver)
Just as the contentious issue of voting rights in EU Constitution talks seemed to be overcome by the widely agreed formula of a "double majority", Poland has now tabled a new demand which is set to further complicate talks.The Polish interim Prime Minister Marek Belka told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung on Sunday (30 May) that Poland has "in principle" accepted the double majority system, but that this should be complemented by the possibility of a veto of EU decisions by states representing a fifth of the EU population.
The double majority system requires a majority of both the 25 EU states and of their total population for EU laws to pass - the percentages of countries and people needed to form the majority of votes still being under discussion.
The draft Constitution proposes that a decision should be taken when supported by 50% of member states representing 60% of the EU population.
However, Mr Belka told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung that this would be "not enough" for Poland.
"A minority of countries should be able to raise an objection in important matters", he stated.
He added: "This is not only about Poland. This is about a minority which would comprise - let's say - 20 percent of the EU population."
Here's an easy exercise in common sense: you canb subscribe to the EuObserver morning newsletter for free. Try it for three days and see if there's a single story there that suggests to you that the EU is a good idea. That the thing is still flopping on the dock, instead of being put out of its misery, is a function of nothing more than bureaucratic inertia. Posted by Orrin Judd at June 1, 2004 7:27 AM
Poland wasn't forced to join the EU.
If they don't like playing Rhode Island to France and Germany's Texas and California, they should go their own way.
It's not as though the big Three of the EU aren't constrained by the agreement, either; Everyone gains and loses by joining the EU.
Posted by: Michael Herdegen at June 1, 2004 8:18 AMFrance is convinced it doesn't have to abide by EU rulings if it doesn't feel like it.
Poland (a country utterly without France's sophistication) just wants to make it official.
Insufferable Poles.
Posted by: Barry Meislin at June 1, 2004 8:24 AMPoland has just as much right to fight for its national interests within the EU as any other member. Simply because France was one of the original members doesn't mean it gets special priveleges and new members just have to shut up and take it. To say Poland must either leave the EU or accept it as is, is a false choice.
Posted by: Chris Durnell at June 1, 2004 1:41 PMSilly Poles, trying to be American and get legal approval for something. Everyone knows that the sophisticated, French and European method is to agree to something and then just flagrantly violate it when you feel that it's necessary. Look at how the stability pact has been enforced only against small nations, but never the big ones.
Posted by: John Thacker at June 1, 2004 2:10 PMThis is not an issue that I care about at all, but it is amusing to see the Poles maintaining their historic affection for unworkable constitutions.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at June 1, 2004 3:29 PMI assume that the tipping point will come when the Brits vote down the Constitution and the Euro.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at June 1, 2004 6:22 PMChris:
I take it that you live in a small state with little Congressional representation.
California SHOULD have more say in what happens to America than Montana does.
France will have more say in what happens with the EU than Poland ever will.
Poland is entitled to agitate for their own self-interest, but "love it or leave it" is a false comparison - Poland just joined the EU !
Why did they join if they weren't prepared to abide by EU rules ?
Rather, Poland has a great past.
First, if a supposedly great person willingly joins an association of vile people, doesn't that say something about the supposedly great one's nature ?
Secondly, even if Poland were pure and France smelled strongly of sulpher, in a political system based on democracy, how can Poland get around the fact that France has 50% more people ?
As you entitled another post, in a democracy, 60% wins, which is France's share of their combined populations.
Third, France is far wealthier than Poland, which is a tertiary influence, but still puts a finger on the scale.
Fourth, you believe that those European nations with low fertility rates are selfish and shortsighted cultures; Poland actually has a NEGATIVE population growth, not just a low birth rate.
Given that, how can Poland be currently "great" ?
None of the above should imply that I don't have a soft spot in my heart for the Poles...
I just don't see that golden shaft of light from on high that gilds Poland in some eyes.
Rather, Poland has a great past.
First, if a supposedly great person willingly joins an association of vile people, doesn't that say something about the supposedly great one's nature ?
Secondly, even if Poland were pure and France smelled strongly of sulpher, in a political system based on democracy, how can Poland get around the fact that France has 50% more people ?
As you entitled another post, in a democracy, 60% wins, which is France's share of their combined populations.
Third, France is far wealthier than Poland, which is a tertiary influence, but still puts a finger on the scale.
Fourth, you believe that those European nations with low fertility rates are selfish and shortsighted cultures; Poland actually has a NEGATIVE population growth, not just a low birth rate.
Given that, how can Poland be currently "great" ?
None of the above should imply that I don't have a soft spot in my heart for the Poles...
I just don't see that golden shaft of light from on high that gilds Poland in some eyes.
Sheesh! How far back to you have to go to find Poland's great past? 600 years?
Posted by: Harry Eagar at June 2, 2004 1:59 AMHarry:
today
twenty years ago when it toppled the USSR
sixty when it fought the Nazis
seventy when it fought the Soviets...
They had a better century than any other country in terms of which side of the big fights they were on as a people.
Posted by: oj at June 2, 2004 8:34 AMMichael:
Small states stop big states all the time in our system
Posted by: oj at June 2, 2004 8:35 AMSome are born great, some achieve greatness and the Poles do it by falling on their swords over and over.
Think I'd take a pass.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at June 2, 2004 2:28 PMYes, it is that sense of honor that makes them a great, if often tragic, people. The French and Germans end up on the end of the sword over and over but arrive with dishonor.
Posted by: oj at June 2, 2004 2:36 PMYou'd think that at some point they'd adopt a strategy of finding friends.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at June 3, 2004 3:43 PM