Japan's xenophobia is a side effect of their groupthink-oriented culture, IMHO.

The strong cultural tendency to conform and to 'belong' is a big reason their economy has been stuck in a seemingly endless recession for going on 2 decades now. To fix itself Japan needs radical and innovative leadership (e.g., to purge the financial system of essentially insolvent banks and factories) but the political system seems unable to produce a courageous political leader who is willing (or even able) to attack the suicide pact between the keiretsu and the banks that own them (and that hold their unwritten-off bad loans).

And Japan's aging demographics just exacerbates the whole mess.

Japan's racial attitudes are probably not all that different from their neighbors in Korea and China, and to varying degrees other Asian countries.

That's an interesting point.

I suppose the real question is, how does any particular society get beyond its own (naturally occurring) xenophobia while staying more or less true to its own cultural/societal/national "specialness."

A tenuous balancing act? Still, a question of values and red lines. (Nor do things stand still, of course.)

And I imagine that America has an advantage here because of its own peculiar history. Though it is, as we know, "susceptible"....

I suppose the "problem" (if it is indeed a problem) has to be acknowledged before it can be addressed. And then it all depends on how much (and until which point) a society is willing to bend.

(And no, I realize it's not all that simple.)

Question: Do some societies, in spite of all, have self-preservation thrust upon them?....

Barry:

Perhaps, but if so they are unable to adapt to the future and are consigned to the dustbin of history.

Japan has no moldering parchments to peg its
nationalism to and so if they were to say adopt
an immigration policy even 1/10th as liberal
as ours Japan would cease to be Japan.

The notion that a multi-ethnic Japan could even
exists with any continuity to the current Japan
denies the racial basis that nation.

Also their willingness to commit suicide rather
than give into to the unthinkable is not without
precedent in the Japanese worldview.

JH:

Yes, the racial notion of the nation is self-destructive and moronic.

Note the confusion between "immigrants" and "foreigners", with foreigners including people born in Japan and neither physically nor culturally distinct from the Japanese. This is not racism, are even xenophobia, as much as it is tribalism.

At some point in time, the Japanese will simply start to have more children and this decline will miraculously end. There is a short-term problem managing the bad effects of a slow population drop, not a suicide of the nation.

Japan's prolonged recession, while regrettable, seems more in-line with every other country than some unique occurrence to Japan. All great powers, the US, Britain, Holland, Spain, going back, suffered a prolong recession at some point in their history before recovering stronger than ever.

Chris:

"Okay, so far..."

Chris:

Not necessarily.

The population decline WILL stop, at some point, but probably not because the entire Japanese society suddenly starts procreating.

Rather, at some point, only those who have large families will remain. The rest will have died without leaving anyone to carry on their line.

What that means is that the "core" Japanese population, the new baseline, might be very small.

>What that means is that the "core" Japanese
>population, the new baseline, might be very
>small.

But will it be large enough for Japan to survive, even in an abbreviated form (say, minus a few of the Home Islands...)?

OJ
What is the illegitmacy rate in Japan? How many divorces etc.. You seem to harp on gross population figures (in Japan I'm not even sure it is declining) How about the crime rate, is that higher than in the US? This prolonged recession that's referred to, does that mean the standard of living is going down. How many people are on public assistance in comparison to the US?

Those figures are all 0% for Carthage.

OJ
Funny
Regardless, the Japs will do fine and their population will be whatever it is and it won't be 0.00

Imagine a python swallowing a lump of folks, and that lump slowly moves down the python until it is finally is disgourged. The python is lighter, but healthier and hornier than ever.

h-man:

Thank you. Where all was darkness, it is now light.

h:

Yes, you're pro-python. I'm pro-human.

Thank you Peter.
Had an English teacher, once who emphasized bringing clarity to a subject. I flunked, but I still make an effort.

0.0% if you mean among people who today think of themselves as Punic.

More than zero among the descendants of the Carthaginians, who are still with us in their millions.

And there'll be plenty of Japanese, just no Japan.

But only if the Chinese decide to go East instead of South.

My guess is that Japan will still be dominated by those of Japanese heritage long after Europe ceases to be European.

Who's going to take over Japan ?

Russia's experiencing negative population growth, and China's more likely to engage in civil war than a war of conquest against Japan, which they are incapable of mounting at the present.

Korea ?

Further, as the Japanese population shrinks, they might find it prudent to develop further military defenses, such as hydrogen bombs.
They already have ICBMs.

Ken:

IMO, yes.

In the year 2100, they might have a population of, say, 40 million, rather than today's 126 million, but that's still a sizable country.

Michael:

Whoever they import to take care of the elderly.

In the US, or even Europe, those workers would become part of the nation, but in Japan, "guest workers" never become Japanese, and so after the mass of elderly die off, I'd expect to see an outflux of non-Japanese from Japan.

OJ
Herdegen says "Nipponophile". I guess that's me too. You're comparisons of Japan to effeminate weasel France is more than I can take. Could Germany have walked over Japan like they did the French. HA! If it had been Japanese instead of Germans at Normandy, it would be D-day 21525. We had to drop the Big Ones to finish it.

Yet the best you can come up with is a slight population problem that can be solved by having more babies. They can turn out top notch, high quality babies like they do Nissan 350z's. The culture should be viewed objectively and dispassionately on the type of people it produces. America, if there should be room for improvement (i'm not suggesting it needs much)would do well to emulate Japan. They are not as whining, petulant, spoiled brats like many in America are becoming.

Michael:

Sure, a vast population of young workers will just leave rather than take control from a bunch of old people who despise and mistreat them.