April 8, 2004
THIS IS NOT HAPPENING:
Algerians vote in new-look presidential election (AFP, 4/08/04)
Algerians began voting in an optimistic atmosphere in what many see as a genuine -- and unprecedented -- democratic election pitting President Abdelaziz Bouteflika against his former right-hand man, Ali Benflis, and four other rivals."If it goes well we can say democracy has taken off in Algeria," said 65-year-old Omar Belhousse after casting his ballot in Algiers.
Ticking off a list of firsts for the north African country, he said: "It's the first time we've had the freedom to express our will, it's the first time the opposition is really expressing itself. It's the first time we have had several candidates to choose from."
It is also the first election in which the powerful military -- the traditional arbiter of Algerian politics since independence more than four decades ago -- has pledged to steer clear as Algeria's 18 million-strong electorate goes to the polls.
In addition, electoral laws have been liberalized so that the candidates can follow votes from polling stations to the final tallying center, and some 120 international observers will be present -- two other firsts for Algeria.
We have it from reliable sources that this is not happening and that Algerians don't ever want anything like it to happen because Islam and democracy are incompatible. Posted by Orrin Judd at April 8, 2004 3:47 PM
Hardly the first election in an Islamic country. The question is whether it will last without military intervention. Including Turkey, no Islamic country has pulled this off for any significant amount of time.
Posted by: Derek Copold at April 8, 2004 4:01 PMTurkey's been reasonably liberal and mostly democratic for quite awhile, comparable to any of the nascent Western democracies of centuries or decades ago.
Posted by: oj at April 8, 2004 4:22 PMHow many people had to die in Algeria for this to happen? Just as the rest of the middle east has a choice so did the Algerians, reform or keep or the funerals coming.
Posted by: BJW at April 8, 2004 4:25 PMTurkey has only been liberal if you ignore a plethora of restrictions and military interventions, one as late as '96. In a Christian country these things would have been loudly and longly condemned. The only reason these things are overlooked is that liberals like you want to pretend that all folks are jes' alike, when in fact they most definitely are not.
Posted by: Derek Copold at April 8, 2004 4:28 PMDerek:
Greater restrictions than slavery? Worse military intervention than the Civil War? Your hatred blinds you.
Posted by: oj at April 8, 2004 4:45 PMBJW:
A lot. Then it happens. Has it ever worked differently anywhere?
Posted by: oj at April 8, 2004 4:46 PMMalaysia? Bangladesh?
Posted by: M Ali Choudhury at April 8, 2004 7:06 PMAli:
Figments of the imagination. Harry's never been to either so they don't even exist.
Posted by: oj at April 8, 2004 7:42 PMWhy do Muslim democrats have to relive every single mistake the West made? Aren't they capable of learning from other people's experience?
Besides, the Algerians voted overwhelmingly just about 4 years ago to destroy their so-called democracy.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at April 8, 2004 10:51 PMHarry:
They can't be both incredibly stupid and smarter than we are. When's the last mistake any democracy in the West learned from any other? We all adopted sclerotic social welfare states which drove us into global recession and no one but us is even kicking against extinction. They'll make their own mistakes and maybe learn from them or maybe not--but their fate will finally be in their own hands. That makes the war worthwhile.
Posted by: oj at April 8, 2004 11:17 PMYes, I suppose they don't have slavery in Turkey, having ended it with the Sultanate and then ethnically cleansing almost all of their minorities, save the Kurds.
You still haven't dealt with the point. Even when we did have slavery, we still maintained civilian, secular institutions. No Muslim country has done that for very long. We have two exceptions in Malaysia (which is barely majority Muslim) and Bengladesh, where Islam isn't taken as seriously as it in other areas, but they tend to prove the rule, not disprove it.
You'll also note that this wonderful example of "democracy" resulted in the incumbent being re-elected with almost 90% of the vote. Not bad, he almost did as well Saddam Hussein and Musharraf.
Posted by: Derek Copold at April 9, 2004 12:46 PMJust as we cleansed Native Americans. Turkey's not perfect but it's as democratic (or more so) as most of the West was in 1840--seventy years into our democratic experiment.
Posted by: oj at April 9, 2004 1:31 PMYeah, everybody's got to start somewhere.
Posted by: M Ali Choudhury at April 10, 2004 8:10 AMAli:
No, no, we are requiring Islam to start where we finished or else it is incapable of democracy. Skip all of the development and go straight to European-style secularized decline.
Posted by: oj at April 10, 2004 8:45 AM