This is shocking that this incident happened, that this behavior was encouraged by the other fans at the game.

Sports venues are official events of an institution yet by their nature seem to encourage a broader range of behavior than acceptable normally. Consider the parental violence problems that have plagued young people's hockey for example.

The question now is: will there be any official response from Trinity? Will they come forward with a response to their students, or the Dalton team?

Please let us know if Mr. Moses (ironic, no?) responds.
I grew up in NYC. I attended Hunter College Elementary School, which was an anomoly in that it was a public school with admission tests. It was considered as good, if not better than many of the private schools, but was co-ed only through 6th grade, and required another test beyond that.
In sixth grade, therefore, many of my classmates applied to private junior high schools. Several of my friends went to Dalton - none to Trinity. They were all Jewish.
Some things never change, although I stupidly had assumed they might have.

Nina Yablok

Being a jewish Dalton student, it pains me a bit to hear this. I in fact,attended Warren Hines night to cheer on my team and to boo off Trinity but i never expected for the "boos" to turn into anti-semitic comments. While these comments were dissapointing and out of line I hear simmilar ones in school all the time(mostly jews teasing other jews). Dalton and a clump of the New York City private schools are primarily jewish and in school I hear a lot of people saying things like "go christians!The few and the proud" or go jews we rock! While these comments are not as directed as the Comments at the basketball game, they all fall into the same category. In our society , at least the uptown private school society, there seems to be a constant battle between religious cultures. Also, stereotypes within religion have become somewhat generalized terms. For instance, the term "JAP" (Jewish American Princess) can apply to a jewish,christian, african american, even chinese student. Wearing Gucci,Juicy, or Jimmy Choo has the ability to make anyone a JAP. So,going back to the basketball game...were these students really anti-semitic?(perhaps they were even jewish)Or were they just spitting words they hear their classmates saying everyday?...maybe even classmates making fun of themselves. I too have been guilty of joking about jewish culture when I imitate my grandmother telling me to find a nice jewish boy, or I pretend to freak out over seeing Barbara Streisand. Not to say that the Trinity students were not being inappropriate(because they were) but they probably didn't even realize it which I feel is the main problem. What people(especially teenagers) must try to do is to be more aware of oir surroundings and actions, who we may offend. while, just a joke it was obviously out of line because it offended you and they didn't even stop it. While they probably dont hate jews, they are presenting themselves in such a way where I'm sure some people think they do. Thanks for your concern!

The problem is that people from this strata aspire to be French (or Continental, if you prefer) - so naturally, the put-downs are as they are. I'm not surprised the parent's rebuke was dismissed - it takes a lot to silence or upset a young prep, before whom the world is supposed to bow.

You're too kind Alexandra.

more than 50% of Trinity school is jewish

more than 50% of Trinity School is Jewish

I am a Trinity student, and while I am ashamed of my schoolmates' actions and believe that disciplinary action is probably warranted, I think it is totally unnecessary to characterize the entire school, including its faculty and staff, as hate-mongering bigots. As someone has already pointed out, Trinity is more than half Jewish (52% is the statistic floating around the halls), and while i understand that that fact does not rule out antisemitism, I think it is ignorant to take the actions of a few kids and make them representative of the feelings of an entire student body, their parents, their teachers, and the Trinity institution. I think Mr. Palmer is guilty of the same sort of generalizing that he is accusing me of. It is tough, as an innocent bystander to this whole controversy, to be identified as an example of "all that is wrong in the world" and to have it revealed to me that I am taught anti-semitism at the dinner table and in the classroom, which I assure you could not be farther from the truth. Mr. Palmer had every right to be offended by the remarks of those few Trinity students, but it is unfair to attack the morals of every Trinity student and to publicly slander Trinity as an institution based solely on his experience with these individuals.

As a former Dalton student who is now married to a former Trinity student, I found Mr. Palmer's letter to be deeply disturbing. What comes to my mind is why the teachers, referees and coaches present permitted this conduct to continue during the game. Why was it not addressed then and there? How could Dalton parents and staff have permitted this to happen without (a) getting the names of the students who shouted the anti-semitic comments and (b) requiring them to leave? How could Trinity staff and coaches have permitted its students to act like this? While I would not have liked to hear this when I was a high school student, it is worth remembering that they are children and ultimately the adults are responsible for their past and future conduct.

--- Jeff Rabkin

The students who commented on the center on the Dalton team were Jewish as well as Goldberg and Mr. Palmer was escorted out of the game by security because of his physical treatment of these spectators. Trinity is most definitely not an anti-Semitic school; in fact, most of its students are Jewish. I am disgusted by these allegations; this was a incident concerning two students that happened to attend Trinity School and Mr. Palmer did not need to send this letter to the rabbi at central synagogue, an archbishop of New York, and the editor of the New York Times as he did nor did he need to promote this slandering of Trinity�s good name.

The students who commented on the center on the Dalton team were Jewish as well as Goldberg and Mr. Palmer was escorted out of the game by security because of his physical treatment of these spectators. Trinity is most definitely not an anti-Semitic school; in fact, most of its students are Jewish. I am disgusted by these allegations; this was a incident concerning two students that happened to attend Trinity School and Mr. Palmer did not need to send this letter to the rabbi at central synagogue, an archbishop of New York, and the editor of the New York Times as he did nor did he need to promote this slandering of Trinity�s good name.

The students who commented on the center on the Dalton team were Jewish as well as Goldberg and Mr. Palmer was escorted out of the game by security because of his physical treatment of these spectators. Trinity is most definitely not an anti-Semitic school; in fact, most of its students are Jewish. I am disgusted by these allegations; this was a incident concerning two students that happened to attend Trinity School and Mr. Palmer did not need to send this letter to the rabbi at central synagogue, an archbishop of New York, and the editor of the New York Times as he did nor did he need to promote this slandering of Trinity�s good name.
(Also, the headmaster of Trinity worked hard for his PhD and deserves to referred to as Dr. Moses)

Mr. Palmer has painted an ugly picture but unfortunately it is innacurate. Here is a slightly different description of the event:

1. 2-4 kids chanted offensive comments.

2. Mr. Palmer did comment to a couple of parents that were right next to him that this was happening. However, he never reported this to the Trinity or Dalton coaching staff. Instead, he grabbed one of the students forcefully and shook him while shouting obscenities.

3. A Trinity coach noticed what happened and called "Dalton" security staff who then removed the parent from the bleachers.

As far as I could tell, the Trinity and Dalton staff was unware the kids were chanting these offensive comments. After speaking with some other students and parents it was clear only the people sitting within a few feet of these troublemakers heard the chants. It is clear Mr. Palmer has some serious emotional issues. I hope our school does discipline these kids but I also hope Mr. Palmer gets help.

I find it incredible how everyone who's replied to said letter negatively does not go to Trinity, has never been to Trinity, and has no idea how Trinity works.

Of course the War in Iraq can only be attributed to follies of Trinity students. And you're right, the Holocaust was undoubtedly started at Trinity School. You're so perceptive, Mr. Palmer!

However offensive people claim these remarks to be, it is interesting to note that no one other than Mr. Palmer (who was escorted out of the game by a security guard) became distraught. And apparently the Goldberg in question was actually a friend of the mentioned "anit-semite" who was, in fact Jewish.

Meanwhile, I'm sure all Trinity students henceforth will be chanting "Heil" whilst lighting their menorahs on Chanukah.

How dare Mr. Palmer try to blame the Holocaust, War in Iraq, and 9-11 on a school that is more than half Jewish or compare these horrific happenings towards this event at a high school basketball game? Trinity is a great school and Mr. Palmer should not be talking; he physically accosted the Trinity child and was made to leave the building by security. And to compare these Jewish boys jesting towards another Jewish boy to a Holy Crusade in 2004 must have taken a huge stretch of the imagination.

The problem with people "from this strata" [sic], as a previous poster put it (guess his Continental is a little rusty), is that we have access to media or friends with access to media or think we do or should have such access, because we're such big important Manhattan people like Mr. Palmer, a really successful and really really serious award-winning composer of TV jingles and theme music, according to the website of his company which also happens to be named Shelly Palmer. So that when we lose our cool at a high school basketball game because we're so big and important that we have the right to judge other people's kids and it doesn't matter whether or not we have a clue about what's really going on before we take action, dammit, and then we get unfairly embarassed in front of all the other parents by getting kicked out of the stands in Our Own House, of all places, by people who clearly didn't realize how big and important we are, we don't just haul off and punch somebody and end up in jail like they would at a youth hockey game in some Red Sox kind of place like Billerica or Quincy, no. We go home and write a really strong letter combining our version of the story with a lot of interesting allusions to make it topical and send it to our friends who are big important people too and will make sure our important thoughts are published around the world, and we drop names like Lauder to prove how important we are and we cc the Sulzbergers because whatever unpleasantness happens to us must have some deep Symbolic Meaning and really deserves to be reported in The New York Times. And if those snotty Trinity kids and all their oh-so-superior parents and all their teachers and administrators are slandered in the process, well tough, they messed with the wrong guy, Shelly Palmer, a man with Clout and Access! We had their number a long time ago when we wouldn't let our kid go there even though they wanted him, bad, because we were so big and important! Some lawyer in town must love having this guy, Shelly Palmer, for a client. Google this, Shelly Palmer!

Whatever the students said (did anyone else hear what was said, and were others offended?), that can be responded to. What is inexcusable is Mr. Palmer's behavior--he was physically threatening (pushing) and verbally abusive (using the f-word) to several Trinity students. As a result, he was escorted from the auditorium by a Dalton security guard. He followed up this tantrum with a malevolent tirade that he broadcast widely. In this remarkable letter, he addresses the Headmaster of Trinity School (a school quite like Dalton):

"You can tell your constituents and your charges that they are stellar examples of all that is wrong with our world. And, you can be proud of the extraordinary work you, your staff, your students and their families are doing to continue the practice of senseless, ignorant hatred.

This deranged rant is divorced from any possible reality--it is close to psychosis.

Judged on the basis of his physical, verbal, and written actions, Mr. Palmer is a destructive and malevolent individual who, unfortunately, is capable of causing serious, even long-lasting harm to the students, faculty, and administrators of two excellent institutions.

Mr. Palmer's prating is the height of irresponsibility. True anti-Semitism or for that matter racism of any kind is a heinous blot on human nature; innocuous jokes about gefilte fish and menorahs hardly qualify as hatemongery and holy wars. Perhaps the humor was lame and the venue inappropriate--but give me a break; "Sex and the City" made those same jokes all last season. Yet meanwhile, whipped into a frenzy by his megalomaniacal delusions and rhetoric, Palmer decided that "individuals don't matter" and proceeded to condemn "Trinity culture." Previous comments have elucidated the situation, but it bears repeating: these were Jewish students, making benign ethnic jokes to a friend of theirs on the Dalton basketball team. Moreover, surrounding spectators were watching and cheering on the actions of the game, not paying attention to these students, tacitly or otherwise. Most shockingly, Mr. Palmer mendaciously skews reality in claiming that "the Trinity spectators thought I was out of line for upbraiding these kids." His verbal--and especially physical abuse--to children (who are clearly not part of some sinister anti-Semitic culture) warrants the utmost opprobrium. Had I been present, I too would have rained "jeers and curses" on this officious intermeddler who grossly misconstrued the situation and now with the indignant wrath of a Tartuffe cynically tries to beat the religion drum. Trinity is not a perfect place, but it did teach me to think intelligently, distinguish fact from fiction, and tell the truth--all abilities lacking in Mr. Palmer's absurd philippic.

I was sitting three rows back from Mr. Palmer and I heard and saw the entire incident.

1) Mr. Palmer did not hit or assault anyone!

2) Mr. Palmer was not escorted from the game by security - he left after yelling at the kids

3) The kids were screaming exactly as he described and it was deplorable. I wish I had the courage to speak up with him!

4) I wish you people would try to understand how hard it is to stand up to this kind of thing. It is so hurtful for everyone involved. Instead of vilifying Mr. Palmer, we should thank him for having the courage to stand up for decency.

I felt so small sitting there I wanted to cry. You people don't understand how it feels to be quietly hated! Bravo for Mr. Palmer!!!!!!!!!

As a Jewish parent of a Trinity student, I am saddened by the comments on both sides of this imbroglio. The Trinity students involved behaved badly -- their lame attempts at razzing their buddy were inappropriate not because they were spewing anti-semitism but because they offended those around them trying to enjoy the game. They are not representative of all Trinity students or the Trinity community. Mr. Palmer behaved badly -- his reaction was over-the-top, attributing the behavior of a few ill-mannered teens to the entire Trinity community. I know that Mr. Palmer is not representative of all Dalton parents or the Dalton community. But now that everyone has vented, when does the healing begin?

The question posed by the last comment is a good one. Wish Shelly Palmer had thought about that before he undertook to smear an entire community in public in such a manner. I think there will be lingering bad blood over this. By Shelly Palmer's logic, his conduct tells us everything we need to know about the Dalton culture, its administration, its teachings and the morals of its entire parent body. Based upon exactly as much data as he had, I conclude that all Dalton parents are egomaniacs, and that Dalton teaches its students that it is right to cast vile accusations at other groups of people if the conduct of some members of that group offend you. Maybe the healing will begin at some point after the kids at Trinity are able to focus on their classwork instead of talking about this every day and at some point after the TV news crews stop showing up trying to find the Nazis that Shelly Palmer imagines that he discovered and end up interviewing a couple of very sorry and deeply humiliated Jewish teenage boys. Maybe Shelly Palmer wishes the cameras would show up at his office, I'm sure Trinity would be happy to send them there and apparently it is part of the Dalton culture to seek publicity.

So many/most of the students at a school named Trinity are Jewish? Is this a great country or what?

This is an unfair judgemt againts the trinity school. THe students who were supposedly supposed to say these things were in fact jewish themselves. THis man had no right to bring up the holocost. He had to swing at a boy because of his anger magement problems and had to be escoreted out of the building by security. I hope this man is charged with assults.

This is an unfair judgemt againts the trinity school. THe students who were supposedly supposed to say these things were in fact jewish themselves. THis man had no right to bring up the holocost. He had to swing at a boy because of his anger magement problems and had to be escoreted out of the building by security. I hope this man is charged with assults.

This is an unfair judgemt againts the trinity school. THe students who were supposedly supposed to say these things were in fact jewish themselves. THis man had no right to bring up the holocost. He had to swing at a boy because of his anger magement problems and had to be escoreted out of the building by security. I hope this man is charged with assults.

THe events surrounding the dalton game verses trinity remains unclear. However, this man had no right to use the holocAUST as justification for the comments made by trinity students. As a jew myself I deplore the name-calling, but to generalize the school of triity as anti-semites is ludicrous. In fact, there are many jews who attend trinity. As one of them, I can say that this man's rash accusations are false. I feel sorry for Goldberg,as this is probably a hard time for him. And to conclude, a bit of advice : violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Ok, let me clear this up for anyone who is reading this. I am a Jewish Trinity Student and I know those who committed these so-called attacks on the Jewish Race. The children who said these things did not mean them in an offensive or insulting manner. They were being loose and comedic with sterotypical terms and were,in essence, mocking racism, not embracing it. Mr. Palmer's overeaction to the events and his outright accusation of Trinity without any investigation is pathetic. Instead of being civil and investigating the matter privately before making his accusation, he attacked Trinity in a public forum. As both a Jew and a Trinity student I am more offended by the actions of Shelly Palmer then I am by the actions of the students. There is NO element of anti-semetism present in Trinity School.

Sophmoric. Yes. Insensitive. Undoubtedly. Stupid. Without question.

Anti-Semitic. I'm not sure. A feeble attempt at humor that went way too far. But let's assume that the comments really were offensive and it would be hard to argue against that as Mr. Palmer was clearly offended.

But Mr. Palmer is also at fault here. He questions why no one told these boys to stop. The truth is, Mr. Palmer himself did not tell the boys to stop. Why is he quick to blame other adults who did nothing? Mr. Palmer's first reaction, based on accounts of people who were close to the incident, was to smack one boy on the face, punch the other boy in the arm and call them "anti-Semitic faggots". I guess it isn't a slur if you you demean homosexuals. Mr. Palmer then slammed his way past other students, pushing and shoving them physically. Maybe if he had turned to the boys, as he so wishes that someone else had, and said "Hey, knock it off, you're not being amusing, you are being offensive!" the whole thing would have stopped.

At least one of the original boys that was hit by Mr. Palmer is, in fact, Jewish. As were any number of the other students and parents that Mr. Palmer accuses of sitting idly by while this went on. While I cannot, and do not applaud or approve of the actions of those students involved, I do think that wiser heads should prevail here. It appears that Mr. Palmer's version of the events is the one that is being given the most credence simply because he was the first to go public with it. Maybe he realized that he over-reacted, and was embarrassed by his removal from the gymnasium. It is curious that even after he was removed, the students involved were not asked to leave the building, and remember, these were Trinity students in the Dalton gym. If, in fact, they were being racist and anti-semitic and venomous, I expect that somebody else in the gym would have heard that and would have agreed with Mr. Palmer and stood to defend him. The boys were idiotic in their comments. Mr. Palmer goes a long way in his letter to link some boy calling a "turnover" a "Passover" and "He fouled him, that's not kosher" with 9/11 and the war in Iraq. He claims that the chants of "Dalton scored a basket, light the Menorah" awakens long-forgotten images of Kristallnacht and the Holocaust.

I am glad he has the sense to equate a series of tasteless comments to a holy war.

Mr. Palmer is right to stand up for his beliefs, his heritage and his sense of decorum. He has no right to physically and verbally attack two teenagers, offer slanders and slurs of his own, mis-characterize an entire organization, half of whom are Jewish as "anti-Semitic", and still stand on the bully-pulpit.

He forfeited his rights to be the moral guardian and chronicler of the incident based on his actions.

As did the boys involved.

Mr. Palmers letter refers to "senseless, ignorant hatred." Senseless and ignorant, but even in his telling of the story, I don't sense any hatred on the part of the students.

Being dumb and insensitive is not necessarily being "anti-semitic". And I have only read his letter and as he saw fit to cc everybody on the East Coast. I'm not ceratin that should be the basis of fact here. In high school, I would have been told by my teacher to "cut the hyperbole". As Jack Webb always said, "Just the facts, ma'am."

According to students from both schools, the story didn't really happen the way he has portrayed it. He characterizes his actions as being imposing. The truth is that he hit at least two kids and shoved any number of others, some of whom weren't even involved in what was going on.

Intersetingly enough, Shelley Palmer's kid shows more maturity than his dad. Mr. Plamer notes that his son didn't leave the stands because he was deeply hurt and upset by the jeering taking place, but because he "sensed that I was about to say something".

Did he sense that hsi father would say something that would make him proud or embarrassed?

There still is a category of face-to-face epithets, or "fighting words," that was wholly outside of the protection of the First Amendment: those words "which by their very utterance inflict injury" and which "are no essential part of any exposition and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality" Argued 2/5/42, opinion 3/9/42. Still true.

I'm embarrassed to have attended Trinity (class of '84).

Even though these words may have all been in good fun, which I could possibly understand, it is not necesarrily the children that bother me it is the parents and the adults surrounding this. I do not think Mr. Palmer was blaming the Trinity students for the Holocaust or the war in Iraq but more their mindset. If parents attending the sporting event at hand had realized that it was offending Mr. Palmer maybe they should havea said something instead of sitting idly by. It is this kind of action, or lack there of that bothers me because how far can these remarks go if no one is willing to stand up for anyone else.

Dear Trinity and Dalton Parents,

You're not in Kansas anymore. Racism, anti-semitism, anti-papism, and anti-anyone other than usism rages throughout New York City's private schools. As the parent of two daughters attending an Upper East Side all-girls school known for diversity and tolerance, I am not shocked by what happened at the Trinity/Dalton basketball game. Sadly, I have been desensitized by my daughters' stories of the cruel and unkind remarks made by their classmates and their parents. Sometimes these remarks are directed to the newest "Prep for Prep" student. "Can you imagine - she'd never been to Bergdorf's?" to descriptions of the Riverdale trio of private schools, Fieldston, Horace Mann, and Riverdale Country, as "Jew schools."

But more cutting and cruel than the mostly naive and insensitive remarks made by their classmates are the slurs made by their smugly self-satisfied parents. My daughters have been upbraided by parents using the F-word and worse, for failing to answer their cell phones or showing up late for a birthday party......since they were ten years old. My daughter's Irish Catholic nanny has been mocked and chided by other nannies and parents alike. My husband and I have left felt compelled to leave parties because of the prevalance of anti-semitic, racist, and anti-homosexual humor.

After Trinity and Dalton speak to their students and investigate what happened they should turn their attentions to the real culprits - the parents. Children learn what they live; they repeat what they hear; they reflect what they see. Why did these students from Trinity feel comfortable making arguably anti-semitic remarks under any circumstance? Why did Mr. Palmer feel free to touch another person's child?

As the fights for civil rights, for women's rights, and to end the Viet Nam War become distant memories the lessons learned in America during the 1960's become unlearned. (The average private school parent wasn't alive when John F. Kennedy was shot.)

It is every New York City parent's responsibility after reading about this incident to reflect on what they can do within their homes, schools, and other communities to foster tolerance and awareness. Cruelty as well as kindness begins at home.

Sadly, Mr. Palmer seeks in his letter to point fingers and ridicule rather than educate and seek resolution. Hopefully, the faculty, administrators, parents and students at Trinity and Dalton and all the other private and/or privileged schools in New York will pick up where he left off and make sure that an ugly event like this does not occur again.

Mr. Palmer was way out of line in his reaction to what happened at the game. I was at the game, seated on the Trinity team bench. I did not hear any such anti-semitic comments, although from accounts I have heard I have no doubt that they were shouted. How can Mr. Palmer compare a bunch of predominantly Jewish kids joking aroudn with the Holocaust. And how can he make such wild allegations against the Trinity school based on the behavior of 3 boys? Also, Mr. Palmer failed to mention that the ENTIRE Dalton cheering section was taunting a Trinity player every time he touched the ball, yelling things such as "Momo's a homo". Now, did Momo's father flip out and attack the Dalton kids? No, he kept a cool head and realized that it is just taunting at a sports game. Even if he had responded, I doubt he would have sent his letter to everyone on the East Coast, because he does not consider himself a big-shot like Mr. Palmer, who thinks he is so important that everyone East of the Mississippi should be concerned with this incident. I agree with an earlier poster that his son was much more mature than his father.

And now the New York Times printed out the Dalton side of the story on the front page of the Metro Section. And in admissions week too.... when will it all end?

As a Dalton high school student, I can personally assure you that I have spent the last week hearing about the incident which occured at Warren Hines' Night. While I was not in the gym itself during the incident, I was in the building and thus saw some of the aftermath.

These seems to be some dispture not over the slurs made by Trinity students but over the conduct afterwards by Mr. Palmer. I very much doubt, however, that he physically assualted any of the studnets. I wouldn't deny the possiblity of nasty verbal exchanges, but it escalating to violence is not something that likely happenned.

Thursday morning, the head of the Dalton high school got up in asembally and said soemthing along the lines of, "we are outraged by the unforuante conduct of several Trinity students at Warren Hines' Night last friday, but proud that Dalton students did not respond in an inappropriate matter. Please continue to act in this manner."

While Mr. Palmer's letter in my opinion went slightly over board, bringing certain things that are quite irrelevant into the situation, his point is well made. Unforunately, the incident in all likelyhood will lead to bad blood between two, already rival schools. The media seems to love us both, while at least Dalton hates the unfair portrayal of its educational venue to the general public. The school asks that it be judged on its merits, and the acomplishments of its studnets and teachers instead. While I agree with this motto, the chacnes of it taking effect any time in the near future are unlikely

The cameras crews simply need to leave the west 91st, hill lined street that characterizes Trinity alone. And, whether or not all of Trinity is to blame for the incident, the school needs to issue a formal apolagy to Dalton.

I think that from what I have been reading all the students no matter what their religious affiliations have forgotten, is that name calling even in fun,is sterotyping and the first step on the road to discrimination. Hitler started with name calling and moved on from there.

Hey, Dalton student, you can take that apology and shove it up your ass. You can get an apology from the kids who did it, but the school is in no way responsible for what happened. And about Mr. Palmer's physical reaction, are you telling me that I didn't see it with my own eyes (I, unlike you, was there) and see him escorted away by a security guard? And about the media: whose side of the story was portrayed in the NY Times? I don't think it was Trinity's. I think Mr. Palmer is using this incident as a shameless grab for publicity. Why else would he send his letter to half of New York? And proud to say that no Dalton students responded in an innapropriate manner? What about your whole cheering section calling one of our players a homo every time he touched the ball? Is anybody saying anything about that? No, because that student's father is not some guy who thinks he's Mr. Fucking Get-Out-of-My-Way-I'm-Important Big Shot.

I disagree with most other students while i am uspet by the certain trintiy student's actions, i do not think tha thte letter was warranted. The letter labeled Trinity anti-semetic and therefore Palmer hismelf did everythign he was fighting against. While trinity owes an apology to Goldberg, Mr. Palmer owes an apology to the Trinity community

This man clearly has no idea what he is talking about. I went to Trinity for 13 years, and while I have major issues with their ethics in certain areas, their anti-Semitism was never an issue because IT DOES NOT EXIST. It should be noted that Mr. Palmer was shaking the Trinity students and calling them "faggots" gee, that's just a word that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. The fact that he likens the taunts (which my family and I, being of Jewish descent and having lost family in the Holocaust, do not find remotely offensive) to the war in Iraq and other atrocities is ludicrous.

As a Jewish teacher at Trinity a few years ago, I remember being somewhat offended by the huge, 30 foot high cross we had to sit in front of during Chapel every Friday morning in what is supposed to be a non-denominational school. Although as a lowly assistant, I didn't feel comfortable telling anyone how I felt, I do feel now that it certainly sent a message. How better to say to the students "Here is the one, true religion"? After reading about this incident, and all of it's subsequent postings, I keep wondering is the cross still there?

As both a black and Jewish student within the high-powered circles of New York�s private school elite, (I wish to remain as anonymous as possible), and as witness to the goings on at the Trinity/Dalton game and its aftermath, I feel exceptionally qualified to comment here about anti-Semitism, race relations, and basketball culture.

Having read the Times piece over the weekend, my reaction is mixed, specifically over the ambiguity of two points in Ms. Gross� article and in the retelling of events that went down at Dalton two Fridays ago.

Firstly, why was it never mentioned that those in the bleachers taunting Mr. Goldberg with chants of modern stereotypes��Hey Goldberg! That�s a foul! That�s not kosher!��were Jewish themselves and friends of the player? He most probably attended their bar-mitzvahs, and they his.

Second, though tactless and insensitive, does such childish tomfoolery warrant the attention of the Times by means of Mr. Palmer�s out of touch and destructive email and its emotional response from the public? I mean, is comparing 9/11, Kristallnacht, and the War Against Terrorism to a basketball game featuring mostly white players truly to be taken seriously by the paper? And if so, why weren�t these direct citations from his email ever referenced?

Or is something larger at work here, reminiscent of Spike Lee or Al Sharpton? Maybe Mr. Palmer, with his cozy ties to media and friends in high places, is out to spin a misinterpretation of ethically inciting events�however deplorable, stupid, and worth of discipline�to shamelessly self-promote himself, his website, his profile and services to a larger audience? Having dropped the great philanthropist and family friend, Evelyn Lauder�s name into the closing of his email, I for one, am suspicious of his motives. (This is New York, Mr. Palmer, and we see through this).

But what made your note so hurtful and wretched, however, is that it needlessly opened wounds in the community I was hoping my generation would be spared. You have a 14 year old, and my advice to you would be to get to know kids better. We�re sometimes arrogant, brainless, terribly ignorant and mostly among these circles, spoiled rotten. It�s just pitiful to see our parents behave the same way.

Everyone's right. What we're really talking about here is a generation gap. those of us who are over 40 found those taunts offensive, whether the kids were Jewish or not. Teenagers, on the other hand, whether they attend elite private or diverse public NYC high schools, use racial and ethnic epithets with their friends all the time, and to them it's harmless and funny. They are much more comfortable with race/ethnicity than we will ever be. They also have no sense of history. Solution? Programs like "Facing history and ourselves" and respect for the feelings of others, particularly when in the presence of adults at "mixed age" events like bball games.

To the teacher "offended" by sitting before a cross in chapel: Since when is a school named "Trinity" nondenominational? You are probably one of those offended by a Christmas tree. I agree with Hausman. Kids today treat childish taunts for what they are, childish taunts. Get a life.

Trinity is an episcopalian school. it has never said it was non-denominational. it is just does not share finances with the church.

Shelly palmer is an oversensative baby and the fact that he hit a kid is the real issue, hes clearly a huge butthead.

i totally agree with the black/jew at trinity. i myself am a jew at trinity and i feel no way is the school anti-semetic. i know there is a cross hanging in "the chapel" but personally i don't take it to heart, becasue i am accepting of other religions, races, beliefs, etc. Shelly Palmer is the one with the real problem; blaming some of the most terrible moments in history on our school AND hitting children! i feel bad for his son, who must be going through the worst time right now with such a megalomaniac dick as a father. all i hope is that people with opinions about trinity know the whole, true story and that they generalize a whole school based on the actions of two individuals. this thing need to blow over FAST.

Most of the adults commenting on the letter have no idea what actually happened, i have friends who were there and i trust what they saw happen more then some asshole dalton parent who just wants to make a big scene over the fact that he just doesn't understand kids today and our generation. Trinity is in no way promoting Anti-semitism and more than half of the Trinity population is JEWISH! The real issue here is the child-abuse of teenagers by Mr. Palmer and the fact that he made false accusations on the entire school of Trinity, its parents, students, faculty, etc. How dare he accuse us of being capable of starting another Holocaust. Mr. Palmer obviouslly has some major psychological issues that he has to deal with.

I have followed this discussion for the last couple of days and I have a few questions:
First, which team won the game?
Second, does the concession stand really sell watermelon?
Third, is Mr. Goldberg legally old enough to drink wine?
Fourth, what is "swatting"?

The only way this story becomes anything other than the story of a self-important middle-aged guy blowing his cool at a high school sports event is IF you accept his paranoid assumptions that everyone around him 1) heard the same things he heard, and 2) believed as he did (as it turns out, completely inaccurately) that what was going on was, in fact, ethnic taunting based upon prejudice, and 3) was related to these kids or was otherwise associated with Trinity, and 4) therefore wasn't Jewish. He is the one with a prejudice or predisposition to believe Trinity is anti-Semitic, as he reveals when he writes that he didn't send his own kid to school at Trinity for "reasons that should now be clear."

This ignorant and delusional man has done terrible damage to everyone involved, including himself, simply because he couldn't wait to get a good night's sleep or find out the facts before throwing a verbal hand grenade in public. Then after his friends like the Judds help him get lots of publicity for his crazy charges and it comes out that he physically accosted the children and generally was being viewed around town as a self-righteous hothead, he changes the facts of his story as he retells it to the NY Times.

Curiously, the Times did not actually seem to interview anyone else who was there, and it doesn't seem to occur to the reporter that there's something inherently unfair when Mr. Gasbag Palmer, who is already ten feet out on the limb, can keep telling his various versions and putting words in everyone else's mouth, while responsible people are keeping quiet to try to preserve the privacy of the children and families involved out of common decency or legal concerns.

Shame on you Mr. Palmer for not having the wisdom to shut up after you had a chance to cool down and after you knew your facts were wrong. You must like the spotlight, even when it makes you look like a fool to the very people you are trying to impress. And shame on you Judds for enabling this lunacy and republishing these falsehoods. It should take anyone who's already made their way here about a minute to find examples on your website where you criticize liberals in general, biased reporting in the media, and politicians for claiming ethnic victimization instead of engaging in rational analysis, but it seems you are just as willing as anyone else to indulge in that sort of thing when it involves someone from your social circle or when you smell a story that might bring a little attention your way.

I would say shame on Dalton, except its inability to control or do anything other than cravenly appease its overbearing and hypertensive parent body is so notorious no one can expect any better from them. Maybe they should revert to their old educational strategy and put Shelly Palmer on Ritalin.

Boy--I wish there had been Internet sites like this back in the days that I went to Trinity so that every time I did something massively stupid and immature (as these kids did) a bunch of hostile anonymous parents and children could rush to my defense. You all sound like you need to get some perspective and take a look at why you are all so angry. The vengeance of the kids posting here is what unfortunately motivates kids, but the adults that have been hatefully slamming Palmer because their privileged, sheltered lives have been disrupted are starting to make his very weak case regarding ignorant hatred for him.

I would like to sum everything up:
(1)Trinity School is now, according to Palmer, an anti-semitic school because of two or four Jewish boys yelling inappropriate comments during a basketball game. (2)Trinity is also the reason that 9/11 occured and serves as the beginning for the holocaust because two Jewish boys in 2004 were saying inappropriate comments during a basketball game. (3) Because of the inappropriate comments set by two or four Jewish boys in Trinity, the school shall no longer have a standing reputation and should be closed down.
*Please read them over and over and if you can't seem to get my message, that is quite sad.

Check out the 1996 Trinity Year Book. Under the "Best Kept Secret Category" for the graduating seniors, one arab american student is derided with "The World Trade Center." Obviously, this is a reference to the first terrorist attack, and few can deny that several school officials/editors must've okayed it. I'd like to hear Trinity's explanation for this. Is over 50% of Trinity arab too?

Check out the 1996 Trinity Year Book. Under the "Best Kept Secret Category" for the graduating seniors, one arab american student is derided with "The World Trade Center." Obviously, this is a reference to the first terrorist attack, and few can deny that several school officials/editors must've okayed it. I'd like to hear Trinity's explanation for this. Is over 50% of Trinity arab too?

To quote a well-known Trinity graduate "you can't be serious". Are you suggesting that the 96 graduates and yearbook editors knew or should have known then what "World Trade Center" would mean 5plus years later? You can't be serious.

A comment from the hinterlands (somewhere west of the Hudson River):

I am a Jew who teaches at a private Catholic prep school in the western US. I have some experience dealing with working in a culture that is not my own.

What I am suprised at is that the students of exclusive prep schools in New York have not been taught that their behavior reflects not only on themselves as individuals, but also on their parents and teachers and educational institutions. Perhaps Mr. Palmer overreacted: that story is not clear from out here in the hinterlands. However, that the students do not take responsibility and plan to work on their poor manners and bad behavior reflects even more poorly on them than does the original incident.

These are the priveleged students of our nation. Why do they behave more badly than we hicks out here in Cow Town USA? Privelege should not be an excuse for bad manners.

In the Christian scripture it is written: "To whom much is given, much is expected." Perhaps these students ought to be taught this.

I am a Jewish alum from the class of '99 and I've gone through various stages of emotion since reading the letter from Mr. Palmer: initial shock at the incident (knowing only what I read in the letter), followed by anger at the audacity of Mr. Palmer for cc'ing the New York Times and the head rabbi of the synagogue I belong to before dealing directly with Trinity, followed by outrage at the New York Times.
As a friend of mine pointed out: New York City is perhaps the only place in the world that this story would have made a national newspaper. I worked as a writer, and then an editor of my college newspaper for four years, and I never would have let the story run in that form. When there's a will, there's a way to get the other side of the story. And I would have to say that the end was just a wee bit melodramatic. (Not that I don't completely sympathize with the recipient of the slurs and his mother)
You'll notice that The New York Times apparently felt the same way. Between the release date on February 7 and today, the Times has changed the story. Note that in the new version:

1. The ending has been changed

2.it mentions that Dalton is also leading ethical discussion where it didn't before

3. it quotes Mr. Palmer's exchange with his son.

I think it would be prudent of the Times to at least mention that the story had been "updated," and for the whole incident to serve as a learning experience rather than incite more "bad blood."

And rather than add to the lengthy attack against Mr. Palmer, I just have one question that I wish he would answer for us all:

What did he hope to gain from the letter? If his true motivation was furthering religious and cultural understanding and seeking punishment for the students who shouted the slurs--well then he only needed to address a much more moderate version of his letter to Hank Moses, who wouldn't have needed the potential pressure of a New York Times article to act appropriately.

Let's get a little healing going here. It seems odd but understandable that this internet debate has provoked so much partisan antipathy, hinging as it does on an emotional issue and playing as it does into a long-standing school rivalry between Trinity and Dalton. Let's assume most of us posting here are not actually bigots and that the conflict is mostly a matter of differing perceptions of what actually happened. In one sense, the dispute is fairly amusing given that you'd be hard pressed to find any two schools in New York City that are more alike, demographically and ideologically, than Trinity and Dalton.

If I had been Mr. Palmer at the basketball game and had heard a few strangers shouting remarks of that sort at another stranger named Goldberg, I also would have been upset. It appears likely that Mr. Palmer did not express his anger in a mature or appropriate manner, but I would certainly have shared his anger had I interpreted events as he clearly did. At the same time, as a Jewish alumnus of Trinity, a diverse school of which I have very fond memories, I find it perfectly believable that the teens who offended Mr. Palmer were Jewish themselves and even friends of Goldberg.

If Mr. Palmer had known this, it seems unlikely he would have gotten so angry, though he might still have reasonably asked the kids to quit it with the stupid slurs. I've never been terribly comfortable with hearing blacks on a basketball court jokingly calling each other "nigga," and I personally am not really fond of jokingly being called a cheap Yid or the like, even by friends, Jewish or otherwise. At the same time, this sort of joshing ethnic banter is in fact often possible largely because people, in the US and New York especially, are comfortable enough with their friends and their places in American society that it can seem quaintly amusing to toss these sorts of epithets at each other. The average gym lockerroom and many workplaces are full of usually good-natured insults of this kind, and when the jokes go too far, people know it and will usually take steps to correct the offender.

Problems can arise, of course, when this sort of dialogue is continued in a more public forum. The way in which these particular teens appear to have been to blame is that they were stupid enough to shout these things at their alleged friend in a public setting, where the odds of their being misconstrued were extremely high. I imagine these kids have at this point learned quite thoroughly this particular lesson about distinguishing between appropriate behavior in a public versus a private setting.

If, on the other hand, there's any indication that the culprits were truly doing their best to hurt the feelings of Goldberg and to defame Jews in general, then they committed a hate crime and clearly ought to be expelled from Trinity and compelled to suffer the privations of completing their academic careers at that most dreaded of juvenile institutions... a public high school. Just kidding.... Some of my best friends went to public school.

Of course Mr. Palmer's declarations about the greater evils of Trinity School are unjust and absurd, but let's show a little understanding since he was writing at the time out of anger, even though that fury may have been provoked by a misunderstanding. I'm reserving more of my irritation for the New York Times, which irresponsibly printed the allegations without carrying out any earnest sort of an investigation at all, thereby libeling my alma mater and fanning the flames of a dispute that never should have taken place to begin with.

By the way, I also share the interest of the poster above who wanted to know how the game turned out. Was Goldberg's scoring percentage adversely affected by the heckling? Does Goldberg himself have anything to say about the incident? Let's hear some more concrete facts already.

Regarding the confusion of the person who posted at 11:41 this morning: The World Trade Center was bombed in 1993 before it was bombed in 2001.

By the way, the idea that Trinity and Dalton have any meaningful differences in terms of relative levels of anti-Semitism, homophobia, and parental self-importance is pretty silly. Both schools likely have fairly high levels of the latter two ills and very, very low levels of the former. Both schools also no doubt have many, many students, parents, administrators and teachers who are sensitive and understanding, have strong values, and care about equality, dignity, and truth and act accordingly.

This is Anthony again. I wanted to include here the email that Henry Moses, Headmaster of Trinity, sent out to the alumni today in response to the episode. While he deliberately avoids being specific about his informed opinion on what took place, I'm confident his remarks are sincere and trustworthy. The letter certainly gibes with my own experiences of the school.

*********************

Dear Friends:

I'm writing to report on events which occurred on January 30, at a basketball game at Dalton, and to set this matter to rest. Much has been said and written about the incident - much of it wrong. We have investigated, carefully and thoughtfully, and I am confident that I understand the facts.

During the game, two Trinity students behaved in such a way that a Dalton parent confronted them and then wrote to me reporting what he believed was anti-Semitic conduct. That letter, which was widely distributed on the internet and in emails and has been the occasion for reports in the media, characterizes Trinity as an institution that inculcates hatred in its students. This is a lie.

Trinity teaches at every turn that it is essential that we respect one another and ourselves and that bigotry in any form is intolerable. From the earliest weeks of a young person's time here, even from discussions in kindergarten, through upper level courses in all the traditional academic disciplines, to specific programs in politics, morals, ethics, and citizenship, to community service, to chapel programs and talks, to our efforts to develop this community as meaningfully diverse - all of our efforts are bent against spiritual meanness of any sort. To see us otherwise is not to see us at all but to see a phantom of one's own devising.

Every good school must do this work. From time to time, some individual will behave in a way that is not consonant with the school's mission; this, unfortunately, is bound to happen. When individuals so behave, the school is required to respond, often in disciplinary terms, always remembering that what a school does best is to teach, and teach the terms made clear in its mission. In the present case, the students involved have been disciplined in a manner utterly consistent with our mission, published policies, and traditions. I am confident that we have handled this situation appropriately and that this specific issue is behind us

We will continue our efforts, not because of this much-discussed incident, but because we have already, long ago, made a promise to do so. I call on every member of this school community to find specific ways to share in this work - in all our classrooms, in all our work places, at all our dinner tables, in all our play. We must never let ourselves be seen as sowing seeds of hatred; we must be so clearly seen otherwise that any such claim - as in this instance - will always be unwarranted and, in fact, ridiculous.

Best,

Henry C. Moses
Headmaster

the students at trinity are not anti semites, and were not even making anti semitic remarks for that matter. they were making anti dalton or anti [insert name of kid here] remarks. they were simply using any ammunition they could get, and the kid happened to be jewish. clearly the race has nothing to do with the remarks because some of those who made them are indeed jewish. they may be indirectly supporting the stereotypes associated with judiasm, but to call them flat out racist is pushing it to an extreme. i am not saying that this justifies their actions, nor am i supporting them; i merely cannot understand their being called racist or any sinonym thereof.
i thank you for your time

the students at trinity are not anti semites, and were not even making anti semitic remarks for that matter. they were making anti dalton or anti [insert name of kid here] remarks. they were simply using any ammunition they could get, and the kid happened to be jewish. clearly the race has nothing to do with the remarks because some of those who made them are indeed jewish. they may be indirectly supporting the stereotypes associated with judiasm, but to call them flat out racist is pushing it to an extreme. i am not saying that this justifies their actions, nor am i supporting them; i merely cannot understand their being called racist or any sinonym thereof.
i thank you for your time

the students at trinity are not anti semites, and were not even making anti semitic remarks for that matter. they were making anti dalton or anti [insert name of kid here] remarks. they were simply using any ammunition they could get, and the kid happened to be jewish. clearly the race has nothing to do with the remarks because some of those who made them are indeed jewish. they may be indirectly supporting the stereotypes associated with judiasm, but to call them flat out racist is pushing it to an extreme. i am not saying that this justifies their actions, nor am i supporting them; i merely cannot understand their being called racist or any sinonym thereof.
i thank you for your time

If racial remarks were yelled at a basketball game at black students, Al Sharpton would have left the Presidential campaign and would be boycotting Trinity.
But, no, it was just anti-semitic remarks...
There should be outrage!
In reading this blog, however, all the comments just downplay the remarks, as in no big deal.
What makes it worse is that parents sat by, and no one corrected these kids...

Has anyone seen the movie Rashomon?

The only thing I'd like to add is that I personally don't believe that an offensive remark is nullified simply b/c the speaker is of the group she/he is disparaging. Often, self-hatred, the desire to fit in, or plain old discomfort can cause someone to use language which is inappropriate. If a gay boy (closeted or out) calls another boy a "faggot" it wouldn't make that any better.

I'm personally just as offended by the Momo's a homo as by the latke and kosher references - no - really, more offended. b/c the implication in the former is that it is HORRIBLE to be a homo, whereas the latter is using stupid and simplistic references to jewish culture with regard to a jewish kid... if i take everything the Palmer letter said at face value, i don't read anything specifically NEGATIVE that was allegedly said about being jewish. let me be clear i'm not supporting the use of a conglomorate of stereotypes as a jeering tactic by those trinity kids either.

I am a half Chinese, half Black, bisexual Jew at Trinity School, and I have never felt hated by anyone there. Trinity is NOT a hating school and I am offended by Shelly Palmer's comments. He has blown this small thing far too far out of proportion. And I am appaled that he is affiliated with that what I now see is a shitty school, Dalton.

As a Trinity alum, I was very surprised to read about the anti-semitic comments being shouted at the Dalton game.

I was surprised and offended for all the obvious reasons. However, I was also surprised because when I went to Trinity, I always got the sense that it was considered much "cooler," in the high school sense, to be Jewish than to be, say, Protestant or Catholic. The "popular," "cool" kids were almost all Jewish.

While at Trinity, I did perceive plenty of problems - the emphasis on money, clothes, and who your parents were; the excessive name dropping; the lack of racial/economic/cultural diversity; the lack of inclusiveness; the prevalence of eating disorders among the girls; the terrible harassment of the girls by the boys (how any girl graduated with her self-esteem intact is beyond me); insulting comments related to the lack of money/clothes of certain students. Was (is?) there a culture of elitism, snobbery and superficiality at Trinity? Yes, in spades. I doubt, however, that it was/is much different at Trinity than at any other private school in New York (let alone Dalton). A culture of anti-semitism at Trinity? Probably not.

As a jewish Dalton student(that attended Warren Hines night) reading these responses, I find it disturbing at some of the things people are saying. Trinity students calling Shelly Palmer an "asshole" is in no way constructive, nor was it a good defense on their part. While I dont believe that the trinity student's actions were anti-semitic, I can see why someone of an older generation may find it that way. While, as someone pointed out that in jewish culture jews can make fun of other jews, just as blacks make fun of other blacks, there is a difference between doing this publically and privately. I believe that anti-semitism comes from stupidity and ignorance, and I don't believe that the students were either.On the other hand there are alot of stupid and ignorant peoiple in our country who may use jews teasing other jews as a defense for other cultures teasing jews. It's not ok. In reality, the students were a bunch of "holier than thou" collars up prep school kids that were a bit sore after being cremed by Dalton at their own homecoming.Their comments while not directly anti-semitic, offended Shelly Palmer who DID ask them to stop. He didnt hit or curse at anyone.While the media may have blown this occurence into large proportions, it just shows how little comments(whether intended for harm or not) can make a huge difference. Part of what my family teaches me, Dalton teaches me, and my intuition teaches me is that respect for all people, jewish,black,white, a dalton kid, a trinity kid, a public school kid etc.. is integral in mending our society. I dont think that shelly palmer was directly connecting the holocaust with the trinity student's behaviour. I think he was saying that little comments can mean a lot and offend people. In nazi Germany, little comments turned into big actions. I in no way think this event will lead to another nazi Germany, but I believe the evnt was disturbing nonetheless.Plaese take this into mind. Thanks!

"Matzah! Matzah!" I am so offended!

Can anyone who was at the scene attest to whether Shelly Palmer in fact called the Trinity students "faggots" when he made his courageous stand for principles of tolerance? This, and the "homo" chant of the Dalton crowd, deserve their share of outrage, as well as some New York Times coverage.

It is very telling that Palmer's son left the stands when he sensed that his father was going to react. To me this in itself is an indictment of Palmer. Poor kid...let's hope he doesn't turn out to be gay!

"Trinity alum," what do you mean by harassment of girls by boys at Trinity? Is this something the administration should be more vigilant about?

When the Dalton kids started saying things,the coach told them to stop. Trinity got no such reply from any administration.

As a jewish Trinity alum, I am deeply upset by the incident at the game. Although I never witnessed anti-semitic comments while I attended Trinity, I will be hesitant to send my children to Trinity when that time comes. While it is it true that not everyone at Trinity is anti-semitic, the fact that these comments were made and no coach or Trinity parent tried to stop it says something about the school. The fact that Dr. Moses did not take any responsibilty for the actions at the game only says to the Trinity community that anti-semitic comments will be tolerated. If Trinity does not take responsibility for what happened and formally apologize to the Dalton families, Trinity will have a hard time recruiting jewish kids in the future.

It couldn't be clearer that the Dalton parent is trying to obscure with nonsensical exaggeration the allegation that he put his hands on a child not his own. If true, this could constitute assault and battery and should be referred to and investigated by the police. In this country, we have the right to expess ourselves (as every high-and-mighty media person loves to remind us whenever anyone questions the tastefulness of putting big bucks in their pockets from exhibiting garbage) and there are other methods for dealing with statements you don't like.
The NYT should be roundly criticized for apparently performing no due diligence whatsoever on the allegations of the Dalton parent. The reporter was either currying favor within the organization or is unaware of journalistic standards, in which case he should be severely disciplined.
Both Dalton and Trinity have parents who are used to having any idea that comes into their heads accepted as great wisdom and followed blindly. That may work in the setting of a commercial establishment, where hierarchy can determine what passes for right and wrong, but in a regular environment such position doesn't count for a hill of beans.

It couldn't be clearer that the Dalton parent is trying to obscure with nonsensical exaggeration the allegation that he put his hands on a child not his own. If true, this could constitute assault and battery and should be referred to and investigated by the police. In this country, we have the right to expess ourselves (as every high-and-mighty media person loves to remind us whenever anyone questions the tastefulness of putting big bucks in their pockets from exhibiting garbage) and there are other methods for dealing with statements you don't like.
The NYT should be roundly criticized for apparently performing no due diligence whatsoever on the allegations of the Dalton parent. The reporter was either currying favor within the organization or is unaware of journalistic standards, in which case he should be severely disciplined.
Both Dalton and Trinity have parents who are used to having any idea that comes into their heads accepted as great wisdom and followed blindly. That may work in the setting of a commercial establishment, where hierarchy can determine what passes for right and wrong, but in a regular environment such position doesn't count for a hill of beans.

It couldn't be clearer that the Dalton parent is trying to obscure with nonsensical exaggeration the allegation that he put his hands on a child not his own. If true, this could constitute assault and battery and should be referred to and investigated by the police. In this country, we have the right to expess ourselves (as every high-and-mighty media person loves to remind us whenever anyone questions the tastefulness of putting big bucks in their pockets from exhibiting garbage) and there are other methods for dealing with statements you don't like.
The NYT should be roundly criticized for apparently performing no due diligence whatsoever on the allegations of the Dalton parent. The reporter was either currying favor within the organization or is unaware of journalistic standards, in which case he should be severely disciplined.
Both Dalton and Trinity have parents who are used to having any idea that comes into their heads accepted as great wisdom and followed blindly. That may work in the setting of a commercial establishment, where hierarchy can determine what passes for right and wrong, but in a regular environment such position doesn't count for a hill of beans.

I'd like to point out something else here that I have heard. I myself cannot confirm it, but forgive me, because I think it is a salient fact. The word out of Trinity School is that a couple of the boys involved in this incident turned themselves in for disciplinary action on Friday evening, immediatlely after the game. It is said they called the coach, Coach Lieberman, and informed him of the incident. They didn't wait for Palmer to write to the school( much less to the rest of the civilized world) to take responsibility for their actions. Someone closer to the event may have more particular knowledge of this story, but amongst the Trinity parents I have heard this mentioned on a number of occasions. This in no way excuses their sophmoric and insensitive behavior (and that is all it was) but it does show that they didn't need to be pilloried by Palmer and his obvious over-reaction to take responsibility for their actions. Mr. Palmer has yet to do the same.

Maybe the reason that the Dalton coach told the kids to stop is because they were actually chanting and he heard them. Presumably, the Trinity coach, Coach Lieberman, didn't hear the Trinity students. I think it might be because the Trinity kids weren't "chanting" but actually just saying things (offensive or not) for a smaller group. It might also explain why nobody else besides Mr. Palmer actually heard theses things.

It couldn't be clearer that the Dalton parent is trying to obscure with nonsensical exaggeration the allegation that he put his hands on a child not his own. If true, this could constitute assault and battery and should be referred to and investigated by the police. In this country, we have the right to expess ourselves (as every high-and-mighty media person loves to remind us whenever anyone questions the tastefulness of putting big bucks in their pockets from exhibiting garbage) and there are other methods for dealing with statements you don't like.
The NYT should be roundly criticized for apparently performing no due diligence whatsoever on the allegations of the Dalton parent. The reporter was either currying favor within the organization or is unaware of journalistic standards, in which case he should be severely disciplined.
Both Dalton and Trinity have parents who are used to having any idea that comes into their heads accepted as great wisdom and followed blindly. That may work in the setting of a commercial establishment, where hierarchy can determine what passes for right and wrong, but in a regular environment such position doesn't count for a hill of beans.

It now appears that the NY Times has made a couple of significant changes to the article that appeared on Saturday. A comparison of the origianl article and the version they are NOW using on the website showw that, in fact, it is Palmer and the mighty Times "who are cought in the headlights." There is a softening of the descriptive parts of the incident, there is a pseudo explanation (pseudo being the operative word) from Palmer about why he over-reacted, there is a new ending to the piece. Suddenly, the Times finds itself in a position where it isn't so certain that A. "The facts are not in dispute.
B. The investigation is complete. C. Palmer gave a true accounting of the event.

It is also interesting to note that the Times claims that The Trinity School did not challenge Palmer's account. The truth is they didn't comment on it AT ALL. That also means that they didn't confirm it.

It was also intersting to note that the most impartial observer quoted, THE HEAD OF THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE?!?!?!, wasn't there, only heard Palmer's version and then declared that "the investigation is over." Trinity School did an appropriate and measured and open investigation of the incident that was still going on until Tuesday of this past week. Because they wanted to get to the truth.

Will the Times retract? Will it explain? Will the true story get any placement at all in the printed paper, the one that everyone actually reads. Or will the Times just quietly keep updating/changing the electronic version in a feeble attempt to cover up their lack of journalistic integrity with this story?

As a Dalton graduate and the father of two Trinity students, I am outraged at the impression that anti-Semitism is rampant among Trinity School students. (Jane Gross article of Feb 7.)

Most of my children's friends at Trinity are Jewish and at least one of the hecklers was Jewish. Surprisingly, Jews are the largest single religious group at Trinity and in 12 years of close association with the school I have never heard a whiff of anti-Semitic sentiments.

Tasteless taunts were voiced during the basketball game. Dalton fans repeatedly called a Trinity player a "homo" because his name ended with the letters MO. Last year a black Trinity girl was plagued with "Oprah" taunts by Dalton fans. Such stupid "joking" adolescent behavior and should not be tolerated, but any suggestion that this foolishness is a sign of real racial or religious intolerance among Trinity students is ridiculous, as several hundred Jewish Trinity students will attest.

Isn't it time for all of this to end? As a Dalton parent, it is extremely upsetting to be judged on the basis of another parent's behavior. If I were a Trinity parent I would feel the same. Neither school/culture should be assigned blame or branded in a certain way because of the behavior of a few.
Whether the facts are in dispute or not, the lesson is clear: all of us involved in these schools of privilege have a responsibility to act well. Right now, none of us is doing it.

This morning we spent our assembly (extended to twice its usual length to give adequate time for discussion) engaging in a Q&A with our headmaster concerning the issue. I think that most of the student body is in agreement that Mr. Palmer's letter was uncalled for, ridiculous and, most importantly, erroneous. Whatever the truth behind the reported incident, from what I have heard the students in question are Jewish themselves, the remarks were addressed to a friend pertaining to an "inside joke", and although their choice of location and event to shout the slurs was extremely stupid (there is no other word to describe it) their intension was not to be offensive.
I have no idea where they learned to throw around such words, because I have never heard any of them used in Trinity except maybe during Hanukkah Chapel when describing the celebration's usual accessories. However this is not really the issue. We could sit and tear away at the evidence to find the truth, debate over whether the comments were justified or if Palmer had the right to shove the 15 year old and call him an "Anti-Semitic faggot", or argue over whether it is the fault of Trinity that the holocaust occurred, but frankly I don�t care. I�m not going to sit here and praise my school for its tremendous job in creating a quality environment for me and my peers, because I don�t think it is necessary. Eventually the rumors will subside, the Times will find another juicy story about child corruption, and we'll all move on with our lives.
But my question is: Why has THIS incident caused so much drama? Mr. Palmer said in an interview "If they had been screaming about watermelon and collard greens, there would have been a race riot." Would there? I don't know. Yes, people would be offended. Letters may even be written. But if that had occurred and my mother (an African-American citizen with equal rights to speak her mind and be heard) wrote a letter to the New York Times or even our headmaster, would she get the same response? I'd love to think so and I�m confident that Trinity would make a point to clear up the issue, but I doubt that we would see any news coverage on New York 1 about my mother's letter.
Mr. Palmer also said �It�s easy to be Jewish in New York, or at least it was for me until last Friday night.� Yea, it is easy. I understand you were offended. I was offended when I heard about it. But the comments were not directed towards you. There may be certain physical characteristics and stereotypes that are associated with Jews, but for the most part it is hard to tell. You don�t have to walk down the street and constantly wonder if people are looking at you differently, if they�re wondering why that black girl is with all those rich white kids. It doesn�t matter who you are, where you grew up or where you go to school, in the real world racial minorities are defined by what they look like. If I had to choose between the discrimination, bigotry and hatred racial minorities have experience for decades, even centuries, and hearing the word �Nigger� thrown around a few times (which is included in the former anyway), I�d choose the latter.
There may be hatred, discrimination and anti-Semitism in other places in the country, but as you said, it�s easy to be Jewish in New York. The fact of the matter is that you GOT your letter into the New York Times and your story onto the news stations. When you get a little hot headed, you can just call up you�re buddy and the next day you�ve got your name all over the city�s news and in the mouths of its citizens calling you their savior, and you didn�t even need to provide proof. That just wouldn�t happen if it were my mother.
If you really care about finding a solution to this problem, not just getting some publicity for you and your son�s school, maybe we should begin by not attacking an individual person or community for using derogatory terms, but finding a way to teach people that it is not right to BELIEVE them. Otherwise, we are merely teaching our children not to say a word, rather than explaining to them why they should make the CHOICE not to offend another human being.

I find it interesting to see that Mr. Palmer fails to mention the actions of the Dalton team. For example, his account of the events of that night omits the Dalton team�s chants of �Homo Momo,� a rhyme coming from the last name of a Trinity player.

In addition, many of his own actions seem to have slipped his mind. He neglects to inform the reader that it was the work of only two students. He apparently overlooks the fact that he did not tell the students to stop. In his haste to finish the letter, he must have forgotten to describe the way he called the students �anti-Semitic faggots,� or the way he hit one in the face and the other in the arm (one of the students is considering suing), or the manner in which he shoved his way through the crowd until he was escorted out of the room by a security guard.

The letter also demonstrates his lack of research of any kind. He does not mention the fact that one of the offending students is Jewish, or the fact that more than half of Trinity is Jewish. And yet, somehow, he believes that Trinity can still be an anti-Semitic institution.

With those facts presented, it becomes rather clear that the two students were not being serious in their attacks. How could they, when one of the students is Jewish? The behavior they engaged in was meant to satirize bigotry by demonstrating its sheer ignorance.

However, this by no means justifies their actions. Clearly, the remarks were offensive (even if that was not their true intention), and as a result the two offending students should apologize. But if they need to apologize, Mr. Palmer and the offending Dalton students should apologize as well. Bigotry is a terrible thing, regardless of its target.

Apparently, Mr. Palmer did not realize the irony of his letter and his actions. In marking every Trinity student with the label �anti-Semite,� he practices the same sort of stereotypical generalizing that he preaches against. At the same time, he completely ignores both his homophobic remarks and those of the Dalton team. He wields a sword of bigotry and then stabs himself with it. Furthermore, he decries the violence of wars and terrorist attacks, but seems to have no problem with assaulting two minors both verbally and physically.

So how can Mr. Palmer justify writing such a biased and completely one-sided letter? He unfairly attacked Trinity and misled a huge number of people through his dishonesty. There is no substantial defense for such actions.

In Mr. Palmer�s message, he suggests that Dr. Moses use the letter to �explain to your students and their parents why there are wars; why people feel it is necessary to kill each other and why nations and peoples continue to grow apart as the world matures.� Perhaps a description of Mr. Palmer�s actions would be more useful in offering an explanation for these tragedies. After all, bias, lies, and hypocrisy have caused a great deal of hatred and suffering.

So how should I respond to your words and actions, Mr. Palmer? Should I follow your example? Should I, having heard your words, mark you with the label �homophobic�? Should I extend that label to cover all Dalton parents, or even the entire Dalton School? Should I attempt to blame all of the evil in the world on your actions? Should I assault two minors both verbally and physically?

No. I will take none of these actions, because as a Trinity student, I know better.

Two years ago, when I left my old school and applied to various high schools, I was accepted to Dalton, but I chose Trinity. I�m glad I did.

amen.

To the Trinity 11th Grader who posted at 5:54 PM.

Very thought provoking and your conclusion is right on. Thank you.

To the Trinity 11th Grader who wrote at 5:54 PM.

Very thought provoking post...Your conclusion is right on. Thank you.

Here's an idea: A lot of people should do a lot of apologizing.

Mr. Palmer should say he's sorry for not being more level headed and for widely disseminating his overreaching remarks about Trinity and for referring to the Trinity students as "faggots," assuming that he made such a statement. He should send his written apology to everyone who received his original letter.

The Trinity students who made the remarks about Mr. Goldberg should apologize for not keeping their private joke to themselves and for not realizing that those not in their inner circle could easily take offense.

The parents of the Trinity students who made the remarks should apologize if they were present and did not do anything to remind their kids that they were in a public forum (and a highly privileged one, at that), which was inappropriate for that type of behavior.

The Dalton students with the Homo Momo remarks should apologize to Mr. Momo and to the gay community in general, especially to gay students, family members, or teachers who may have been present at the time.

Their parents should give the same kind of apology as the one suggested above for the Trinity parents.

The New York Times should apologize for not doing a more balanced job on the story.

Then the two schools should get together and hold a great big fundraiser to benefit the Anti-Defamation League and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. Attractive non-alcoholic beverages will be served, as well as "ethnic" foods of all varieties.

Re: Apologies & Fundraiser

Brilliant! That's exactly what should happen. Maybe Janet Jackson will do the event for free to escape her own scandal.

I, like so many other people who have responded to this letter, am a jewish trinity student. I transferred to Trinity from another new york city private school in ninth grade. In the two years ive been there, i have never heard an anti-semitic remark. ever. in fact, i believe that the reason these two boys were able to make the remarks that they did, is that anti-semitism seems unrealistic to us. It doesn't exist in the halls at school or in our homes. Because of this, they were probably not even thinking that they might be offending someone around them. Not to mention the fact that one of them is jewish himself. I know both of the boys personally, and am POSITIVE that neither would ever make a malicious anti-semitic comment. Shelly Palmer on the other hand, seemed to have no qualms about calling one of them an "anti-semitic faggot". Nor did the Dalton students seem to have any problem chanting "homo Momo" at one of the Trinity basketball players at our homecoming.
The most sense i can make out of Shelly Palmers attack on the Trinity school is that he was trying to defend himself ("the best defense is a good offense", and all that stuff). Maybe, after physically attacking FOUR Trinity students, he realized he might be in trouble. In order to turn the focus off himself, he attacked us.
I am also very disappointed in the New York Times for printing a very one sided story and making it sound as though it were factual. The whole event has been blown out of proportion. I would like to congratulate my peers on realizing what a publicity stunt this was on Shelly Palmers part (and for noticing the little name drop at the end of his letter).
I put all of my support behind my classmates, and i hope that shelly palmer gets some anger-management help.

I am shocked and saddened to hear of these events. As a former Trinity student, who attended my entire scholastic life there, at no time did I ever feel out of place. As a Jewish person the only problem I ever had was having to attend Chapel twice a week, which was a personal conflict with which I dealt with. In this day and age, a parent has an obligation to set the standards for his/her child, and the actions of Mr. Palmer tells me that he has to work out his own anger issues before casting blame on other people or institutions. It is also shocking that the only side of the story is from Mr. Palmer. I hope that this incident will not deter people of all races from attending Trinity, for it is a NYC culture that has been in existance for almost 300 years.

After, reading over the posts I am impressed by the many Trinity, often jewish students who have posted.
What happened at the game is regrettable both on the side of the Trinity students and Mr. Palmer's actions following the incident.
However, having a significant Jewish community does not mean Trinity, or members of it cannot be antisemetic, having a community acceptant of the Jews does. It is not up to the Jewish students to stand up against this, but up to all of us, the black students, the white students, the homosexual students, the heterosexual students, the Christians and the Jews to show New York and the country that Trinity is not a school which embraces cultural diversity in all its forms. We all know in our hearts that Trinity is not an antisemetic community and we must used this unfortunate incident to unite as members of the Trinity community and show to New York our embrace of cultural diversity.

Terrible mistake in my post we ARE a community which embraces cultural diversity.

There are some other versions to this story. They include a Dalton student referring to a Trinity student with the last name of Momo as "Homo Momo" and a Dalton student referring to a Trinity student as "Oprah". There is also the report that Shelley Palmer lost his cool and pushed 2 Trinity students and called them "anti-semitic faggots" after which he was asked to leave by a security guard. None of this is okay. I'd like to think a parent could keep his cool and it does seem that Mr. Palmer's anger at being removed by a security guard spurred his ire to grandstand. The finger pointing is juvenile. I think everyone concerned gets the message here: It's not funny to make fun of people. To turn this into a "hate crime" or something indicative of massive bigotry at either school is problematic. Bringing in the press and turning this into a circus of righteous indignation smacks of self serving.

Shelly Palmer is a glorified jingle writer who went after a bunch of kids for cheap publicity. If anything trinity isnt angry enough about this affront to our integrity. We should be filling suit for assult and liable. This man has compared us to Nazis and murderers. This is a man with little or no control over his emotions, and his character should be questioned. Obviously Shelly Palmer hasn't turned on the TV or listened to the radio, or seen a movie, or gone online, or read a book, because if he had it would be glaringly obvious that comments like those that the trinity students made happen every day. Perhaps Mr. Palmer would be better served by joining a media watchdog group, and maybe moving to a nice all white state like vermont. You see in New York we have this thing called diversity, it means that lots of people from lots of different races live together, and sometimes people from one race say something bad about people from another race. Or maybe they say something bad about people from their own race, as was the case at the game.

A few other things that bother me about the whole thing...First of all the reaction of certain students has been nothing short of traitorous. Certain students have come forward and basically said that the students responsible for the actions deserve to be punished, and that they are antisemites. This is part of a larger issue with people discovering hidden layers of political correctness. Who knew that so many people could find it the name Goldberg offensive. Also Dalton is equally culpable. At Trinity's homecoming game they were either chanting "Homo Momo" or "Momo is a Homo" Perhaps Dalton parents would like that to be reported to GLAAD and the ACLU and see how much they enjoy being labeled homophobes. Because of the harmless actions of some teenagers the whole student body of trinity, as well as its esteemed faculty and administration are labeled jew haters. The average person who is aware of this story assumes that Trinity students were yelling words like "kike" wheras everyone at both school's know this to be an outright lie. In addition can it really be a coincidence that this situation broke during admission week? Simply examine this site and you will see numerous examples of students accepted to both schools. Who do you think will get more acceptances this week? Dalton the poor victims of hatred, or Trinity those evil JEW HATERS!

This whole situation is unfair, but perhaps the biggest victims of all are the students who are the focus of this situation. A few words which are considered harmless by most people have tarnished Trinity's image. In addition besides the school's best intents the names of the boys have gotten out to the wider world, meaning that their anonymity is not assured. Is it fair that these students lives may be irrevocably altered because a Mr. Shelly Palmer, writer of "hundreds" of jingles. This man is a shameless self promoter, for evidence i recomend viewing his website, it makes for fascinating reading...it is a true case study in megalomania.

Talk about turning a mole-hill into a mountain. This has to be one of the most rediculous things I've ever read. Shelly should've stopped the letter at "To be fair, it was just a group of high school kids." Grow up and get some leather for skin. This world is dog eat dog, and kid's will make jokes. Anti-semitism is a real problem, so Shelly, why don't you direct your energy towards that. This was silly, trivial, and a blatant example of someone manipulating the media for their own benefit. You make me more sick than those ignorant kids, cause atleast they were joking. It's not like they were saying "we hate jews, or kill the jews," they were taking common jewish terms out of context and making them funny, sorta like a SNL skit. To all of you that were offended by this, get off your high horse and roll up your sleeves to get your hands dirty, because trinity is by far not where your biggest problems loom...

Dear Mr. Palmer,

Thank you for being a man in th crowd of wimpy parents unable to teach their kids how to behave in society.

The world needs more Palmers.

Dr. Roger Light

So, Dr. Light, physically abusing and yelling epithets at kids is now "being a man"? Interesting definition. And grandstanding is also "being a man"? Another interesting definition. I bet you wish you could "be a man" like Shelly Palmer, and abuse teenagers. That really is the definition of masculinity.

Mr. Palmer should be immediately reprimanded by the Dalton School. Does no one else find his manner of making light of years of Jewish suffering intolerable? To say that a few kids, fooling around (though clearly inappropriately), evoke the holocaust makes light of years of pain. The war in Iraq? This is a message to Dalton -- stop emphasizing money, snobbish behavior, and the need for self-importance. Mr. Palmer has acted as many Dalton kids (unfortunately being that I have had many good friends that attend the school) do: in a self-contained bubble. All that is important is his battle. History is a mere mirage. The consequences of his action matter little (to him). Judiasm is a tool to bolster his own ego. This is sick. Mr. Palmer and Dalton should jointly give a gift to the Holocaust museum, and an apology to Trinity and its students. I would be remiss to not emphasize the importance of Jewish culture at Trinity (known as the more Jewish of the two schools versus Dalton's more Christian/Catholic reputation -- despite the names), and how important it is to many of the teachers. Please call for an apology and a donation to the Holocaust museum by Mr. Palmer immediately.

I'm just glad I don't go to either Dalton or Trinity! Both schools come off looking crazy and horrible in this incident!

As a personal friend of Shelly Palmer i know that he would never physicly abuse anyone. The accusations that Shelly abused those teenagers is completely false. I believe that Shelly did the right thing by confronting those kids. Their remarks were uncalled for and insensative and the people responsible should be punished for their actions.

A. Rosen 7th grade

I have two comments now that I've read Mr. Beale's astoundingly articulate and fantastically CORRECT comment...

Whose house?!!! BEALE'S HOUSE!!!

Someone needs to tell Mr. Palmer two things:

1. Hitting a child is never an approriate response to words - even offensive words. Even hate speech directed towards the adult (which this wasn't).

2. He cheapens the suffering of true holocaust victims, when he claims to be the victim. His "suffering" consisted solely of having to listen to lame Borscht belt humor by some Jewish kids directed toward another Jewish kid. At an athletic event to boot.

I'm a Trinity student in the middle school. I think that the Trinity Students got out of control, but from reading a lot of these accounts, it says that Mr. Palmer used expletives after being angered. Being an adult, he should've left quietly and then send this letter.

Mr. Palmer comments on how bad Trinity students must have been raised. Over 50% of all Trinity students are Jewish and the students may have just tried to make their center not score so many points. Although anti-semitism is bad, they may have not been chanting just to be anti-semitic. People can do stupid things and that's why they get punished. It's not a Trinity thing...

Dear Mr. Palmer,
If you read this I would like to know that though we as a community condemn what happened at the Dalton game, you as a parent and a member of the community should look back as what you have done. Was it right to physically and verbally (in manners far more offensive than that done by the Trinity students) abuse other students? Was it right to send your letter full of lies to the New York Times as a way of advertising yourself.
If you even just slightly hesitated in your answers you might want to question what you did and whether it was right.

It is refreshing that a more nuanced account of this event has been picked up by the media--The Jewish Week has published an article much more accurate than the poorly researched, one-sided account promulgated by The Gray Lady. I suggest everyone check it out:
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9074

There is no antisemitism at Trinity. Most of the children are jewish. They must have been teasing each other. It was in bad taste. The school is inclusive, diverse, and extremely politically correct. The topic of antisemitism is one that causes people to fly off the handle, but it would have been nice if Mr. Palmer had the good judgement to keep the incident between himself and Trinity instead of doing a smear, and a character assination. I guess we all now know much about his character. He gives jewish people a bad name.

There is no antisemitism at Trinity. Most of the children are jewish. They must have been teasing each other. It was in bad taste. The school is inclusive, diverse, and extremely politically correct. The topic of antisemitism is one that causes people to fly off the handle, but it would have been nice if Mr. Palmer had the good judgement to keep the incident between himself and Trinity instead of doing a smear, and a character assasination. I guess we all now know much about his character. He gives jewish people a bad name.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9074\

wonderful article....shows both sides of the story is a perfectly clear way

I have lived in New York for 30 years. In all that time I have only met two people I never want to have anything to do with again. Although I have not met Mr. Palmer, I now consider him to be the third. And now it seems more than a coincidence that all three people are Dalton parents. My child was accepted there but we turned them down. Thank goodness. I think they need to examine the morals and ethics of a few of their own.

I have lived in New York for 30 years. In all that time I have only met two people I never want to have anything to do with again. Although I have not met Mr. Palmer, I now consider him to be the third. And now it seems more than a coincidence that all three people are Dalton parents. My child was accepted there but we turned them down. Thank goodness. I think they need to examine the morals and ethics of a few of their own.

yet andother article is up

http://www.forward.com/issues/2004/04.02.13/news11.html

This one isn't very good, it edits out the stuff about the Trinity kids being called homophobic names and being assulted...you know I hope the great Mr. Shelly Palmer is thrilled with all of the attention he's getting. Congratulations ShellY! Hit some kids, call them gay, and all of a sudden your a civil rights hero. Damn, i love new york

I think this is all a feeble attempt by Dalton to overtake Trinity as a leading educator, fund raiser and land owner in the increaisngly competative market of New York private school. If John Hanley taught us anything, it was that "the lady doth protest too much". These East Side sissies are picking a fight they can't win - and I'm talking big picture. This "dad" shoved a kid and cursed him. The whole thing stinks...

Nobody benefits from bigotry or racism... but growing up in that "special" enviornment has always given way to off-color humor. Let's not forget how we all made fun of each other, and ourselves, on a daily basis living in a real melting pot. It's a classist enviornment, not racist, and when kids think they are special they have no editing device - that much I recall. It's a difficult situation to take a serious stance on because the situation is less serious than everyone is trying to make it out to be. It's like sports talk radio... just a topic du jour to chime in on.

Don't you think that by talking this issue to death we are giving shelly palmer exactly what he wants (lots and lots of attention)?

He's clearly mentally disabled, there were clearly faults on both sides, people have apologized and moved on.

The End!!

As a student attending neither school, I must say that this does not sound unfamilliar. My Atlanta school is about two-thirds Chrisitan and one-third Jewish. Other religons make up such a small number, they are too few to mention. Young people will be mean to others, they won't respect people differant than them, but also remeber that they will display the behaviors of their parents, teachers, and mentors.

Unfourtanetly there were too many posts to read, but I am sorry if i am repeating myself, first off, I agree with u Trinity people, Mr. Palmer is over reacting a bit blaming you for all the evil in the world, but, his other points are valid. There would be hell to pay if people chanted at black players, "maybe u should go back to picking cotton instead of playing bball" or "That's one damn ugly shot boy!" in a southern accent, or, when he's on the bench, "get that darkie some corn bread and watermelon!" So, unfourtnately i dont know what punishment was given to the Trinity kids, it seems to me like if nothing is done, then clearly there is a problem with Trinity's administration. And ur point that they were jewish, bullshit, that doesn't mean anything, racial jokes are only things that can be done with close friends, and if Goldberg and the dalton kids were close, it certainly isn't something to be done in a public venue. Otherwise I urge all u chinese kids to demand asian bball players (if there are any) to bring you your dry cleaning before they go back onto the court, and see how people react.

To Dalton Parent (Feb. 6, 2004)

If Mr. Palmer did not hit a Trinity student, then why are the families of �victims� considering pressing charges?

To Former Trinity (Feb. 7, 2004)

Trinity is embarrassed to have not taught you the courage to stand up for an injured party of an unwarranted attack on an institution by a man who abuses his power in media by making false accusations on a honorable institution.

To Matt from Columbia Prep (Feb. 7, 2004)

You bring up a great point. The fact that other parents did not stand up and rant at the kids as Mr. Palmer did, strongly suggests to me that they were not offended. So what was truly the cause for Mr. Palmer�s rant?

To Dalton Student (Feb. 7, 2004)

Before Trinity issues a formal APOLOGY to Dalton, I believe that in order for the Dalton School to be judged for its merits, Dalton students must hopefully improve their spelling?

To Cynthia (Feb. 8, 2004):

Perhaps, Hitler did do so. However, I do not see how the entire Trinity Community can be blamed for an incident that involved three Trinity students.

To Trinity Student (Feb. 4, 2004):

Although I agree with you concerning the lack of necessity for an apology, I believe that there is no need for foul language.

To Dalton (Feb. 8, 2004)

I believe that the Trinity students involved may owe an apology to Goldberg, and if so, then the entire Dalton cheering section may owe an apology for their homophobic comments?

To a former Trinity Teacher (Feb. 9, 2004)

Yes the Cross is still there. There was an article recently in the school newspaper in which the issue of the cross was discussed. The Cross is viewed by the Headmaster as �a symbol of Trinity�s past heritage, and not as a symbol of its future.� Trinity professes no official religion and embraces all students of different races and creeds.

To Stanwright (Feb. 9, 2004)

Trinity once did profess a religion. However, it no longer is affiliated with the Episcopal Church of its past history.

To A Parent (Feb. 9, 2004)
There is nothing truly wrong with the Dalton institution, (Coming from a Trinity student, that is a huge compliment). Except for some typing issues with some of the more outspoken students, Dalton, like Trinity is a great private school. My friends at Dalton do not appreciate Mr. Palmer�s commentary and are in no way behind the man�s accusations.

To Trinity Alum (Feb. 9, 2004):

If you are a Trinity alum, may I ask why do you comment on this website if you believe yourself above this sort of commentary?

To Private School Grad (Feb. 10, 2004)

Was your private school 50% Arab?

To Elisheva Levin (Feb. 10, 2004)

Trinity students have been taught better. Do you know any of them personally to justify your comments rather than basing your ideas on a one sided Times article and some comments on this website?

To Parent (Feb. 10, 2004)

The very fact that other parents sat by doesn�t slightly suggest that they took the remarks in fun?

To A Trinity Student (Feb. 10, 2004):

Dalton is a great school, and Trinity taught you better than to attack the Dalton school with profanity.

To Alex K.(a Dalton student) (Feb. 10, 2004):

So tell me, why are the families of the boys considering pressing charges if Mr. Palmer did not hit the kids?

To student at Dalton (Feb. 11, 2004)

I believe that the issue here is different. The stopping of harmful remarks does not make up for the reasons for the remarks in the first place.

To Trinity alum (Feb. 11, 2004)

Trinity will be waiting and give your kids a chance to attend when you change your mind after learning about the full picture.

To Dr. Rodger Light (Feb. 12, 2004)

If the world gets more Palmers, I believe we can all say that child abuse will rise.

To Zephyr (Feb. 12, 2004)

I on the other hand am saddened that you were unable to attend either of the schools known for their academic rigor and diverse cultures. I wish you the best.

To Dalton A. Rosen (Feb. 12, 2004)

If Shelley Palmer keeps friends like you, then his actions may be excusable. After all, one can expect a 7th grader to pull punches on others.

To all:

Please compare Mr. Palmer�s letter and Dr. Moses letter and then tell me which one seems more reasonable?
Will you all please give Trinity a chance to reply to its accusations before you make judgments?
THANK YOU.

Best Regards,
Trinity Student

i am a jew. i go to Trinity school. and there is only one more thing to say: i love my school- LOVE IT. I always have, since the day I started in Kindergarten. I have never felt uncomfortable or different. I love the other students and the teachers and the classes. I am horrified at what other people have to say about Trinity--people who have never even been inside the building, people who think "Trinity" is a Catholic school, people who think we are stuck up rich kids who think we can get away with rude remarks. What was said was wrong, and the students are being punished for it as they rightly should. But what is worse is what other people think they can say about our school, where in a few years I will have spent 13 incredible, fantastic years. To all those people-from Dalton and from other random places- I wish you could come spend a week at Trinity and see for yourselves what a special place it is -- free of hatred and anti-semitism-- full of friendship and life.

i am a jew. i go to Trinity school. and there is only one more thing to say: i love my school- LOVE IT. I always have, since the day I started in Kindergarten. I have never felt uncomfortable or different. I love the other students and the teachers and the classes. I am horrified at what other people have to say about Trinity--people who have never even been inside the building, people who think "Trinity" is a Catholic school, people who think we are stuck up rich kids who think we can get away with rude remarks. What was said was wrong, and the students are being punished for it as they rightly should. But what is worse is what other people think they can say about our school, where in a few years I will have spent 13 incredible, fantastic years. To all those people-from Dalton and from other random places- I wish you could come spend a week at Trinity and see for yourselves what a special place it is -- free of hatred and anti-semitism-- full of friendship and life.

I like griddle pies and snacky cakes

I like griddle pies and snacky cakes

lol at this

"Mr. Shelly Palmer is thrilled with all of the attention he's getting. Congratulations Shelly! Hit some kids, call them gay, and all of a sudden your a civil rights hero. Damn, i love new york"

anti-semitism is bad

but hitting younger people and shouting homosexual slurs just to get publicity is a tad worse

- mr. ghetto

trinity is a great school.

fashizzle

We've discussed this incident in most of my classes at Trinity . . . a wonderful school with no hint of anti semitism. Mr. Palmer has become a running joke at Trinity, he is worked into conversations and even school work, and not in a flattering light. The behavior of the NY Times, the Trinity students, the Dalton students and of course Mr. Palmer is questionable at best. Mr. Palmer is a petty man making mountains out of molehills with too much time on his hands.

We've discussed this incident in most of my classes at Trinity . . . a wonderful school with no hint of anti semitism. Mr. Palmer has become a running joke at Trinity, he is worked into conversations and even school work, and not in a flattering light. The behavior of the NY Times, the Trinity students, the Dalton students and of course Mr. Palmer is questionable at best. Mr. Palmer is a petty man making mountains out of molehills with too much time on his hands.

I would like to commend Mr. Palmer for his actions. Telling them to stop was the right thing to do and bringing in other racist terms such as �faggot� and pushing the boys was a admirable act. Writing a letter to the headmaster of Trinity school so he could talk to these boys was also a good idea. As was his story to the New York Times and sending the same letter to synagogues and the archdiocese of New York (he naturally assumed Trinity was a Catholic school from its name however Mr. Palmer did not think this one through clearly.). Comparing the actions of these two boys to the Holocaust also grabbed people�s necessary attention as it completely fit the situation.

The actions of these two Trinity students at the Dalton basketball game were clearly rude and inconsiderate. Obviously all Trinity students, teachers and parents are anti-Semitic and have no values.

I praise you, Mr. Plamer for your adult reasoning.

As a New Yorker, farmilier with both the Trinity and Dalton institutions, I've kept a close watch on all of this, and all I have to say is a man shouting "faggot" at a group of rowdy teenage boys clearly has some personal prejudice of his own. Clearly Mr. Palmer does not see the irony of it all. But, then again, he is struggling with the prejudice of being a Jew in New York, the most diverse city in the nation, perhaps even the world. Boo-hoo. He definitely had the right to call thos boys faggots, and accuse the entire Trinity institution of being Anti-Semitic.