January 9, 2003
DO WE STILL SHARE A CIVILIZATION WITH EUROPE?:
The hatred of America is the socialism of fools: Confronting Yankee-phobia on the Left will be Tony Blair's toughest task yet (Michael Gove, January 08, 2003, Times of London)Tony Blair appears to have set himself his toughest task yet. Neither reforming public services nor maintaining economic stability compares in difficulty to the mission he took on yesterday. For a Labour politician to confront anti-Americanism is to set himself up in opposition to the dominant ideology of the contemporary Left. [...]The German Social Democrats and Greens put opposition to US foreign policy at the heart of their, successful, re-election strategy last autumn. The Liberal Democrats here have made criticism of US policy towards Iraq the single biggest dividing line between themselves and the Blair Government.
The cultural popularity of anti-Americanism, particularly among Britain’s intelligentsia, is striking. The surprise publishing hit of last year was Why do people hate America? by Ziauddin Sardar and Merryl Wyn Davies, a work which set out to reassure readers that hatred of America was more than a rising sentiment, it was a moral duty. The top of the UK bestseller list is Michael Moore’s Stupid White Men, a furious polemic against US foreign, domestic and economic policy by one of its own citizens.
The widespread prevalence of anti-Americanism, the cachet accorded to its advocates, the reflexive sniggering triggered by any favourable mention of America’s President, all make opposition to this trend unpopular. But vitally necessary. For Yankee-phobia is, at heart, a dark thing, a prejudice with ugly antecedents which creates unholy alliances. And, like all prejudices, it thrives on myths which will end up only serving evil ends.
It is a myth that America is a trigger-happy cowboy state over-eager to throw its weight around, a myth that America seeks to use its undoubted military power to establish an exploitative empire, and a myth that America thrives by impoverishing and oppressing other nations. [...]
Both America and Israel were founded by peoples who were refugees from prejudice in Europe. Europe’s tragedy is that prejudice has been given new life, in antipathy to both those states.
Perhaps this is an appropriate vehicle through which to tie together some of the stories from the past few days:
(1) The World Values Survey: which shows America to be nearly as traditional/religious as the Third World, rather than secular, like Europe.(2) The ANES Survey: which shows that within the U.S. the same split prevails, with the GOP remaining religious and the Democrats becoming secular. More revealing, the secularists hate the religious with a passion not seen since anti-Catholicism plaqued the States.
(3) The Christopher Hitchens piece: which calls upon Europeans and other liberals to recognize the existence of evil.
(4) The review of Mark Noll's book: which charts the unique confluence of religious faith and political liberty in the American Founding.
Now, we're all familiar with Samuel Huntington's theory of a Clash of Civilizations, but might it not be time to consider the possibility that secular culture represents such a significant departure from the Western tradition that it is creating a new civilization? And if this is the case, mightn't we also wish to consider the possibility that part of the coming clash will occur between the U.S. (with a few allies) and post-Judeo-Christian Europe, which we might call the secularsphere? In fact, in the long run, if the conservative viewpoint prevails here in America, mightn't we find that we have more in common with the Islamic world, as it begins to democratize, than we do with a Europe that is not only jettisoning its former religious beliefs but is also becoming increasingly statist and anti-democratic? It seems that both trends are leading them away from us and at some point that must have significant consequences. Posted by Orrin Judd at January 9, 2003 2:55 PM
The Muslim world, when it democratizes, is going to have to pick which way it jumps -- toward Judeo-Christian style "natural law" religion, or secularism. We'll be closer to Latin America and Africa, when they finally liberalize, because they'll be Christian. Another question is -- how will China and India go? These countries also need to develop intellectually and morally.
I think the secularsphere is going to steadily diminish in importance, as economic decay strips them of power and influence.
Yes, and as Islam has shown, cultures in decline tend to lash out against those in the ascendancy. What reason is there to believe that a rotten and decaying Europe will go gentle into that good night?
Posted by: oj at January 9, 2003 2:26 PMI'm not sure the secularsphere is an equilibrium state. Europe is not going to stay secular for long. Its going to become Islamic, traditional European or implode.
Posted by: David Cohen at January 9, 2003 2:36 PMBut the question is, will we stand by when they start gassing Muslims.
Posted by: oj at January 9, 2003 3:10 PMAre you asking for a prediction or a recommendation? Because precedent points pretty clearly in the wrong direction.
Posted by: David Cohen at January 9, 2003 3:21 PMWe may not have stopped Hitler, Lenin/Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc., but we did find it necessary to treat them all as enemies.
Posted by: oj at January 9, 2003 3:57 PM"But the question is, will we stand by when they start gassing Muslims."
That is a horrifying question that I have pondered myself. And I would certainly like to think the answer is no. But what if Europe is going after Muslims in response to 10,000 dead in the subways of Paris and London? What if that oh-so-tolerant multi-culturalism has produced thousands of Muslims that consider their European homes to be enemy societies, to be attacked relentlessly in the name of God? What if the very weakness of Europe that we have all talked about is seen as an opportunity by those who would literally destroy the West and Judeo-Christian society as a whole? And I repeat and re-phrase.... what would be our opinion be of the German murder of the Jews the 40's their actions were AFTER fanatical Jews murdered 10,000 Berliners, destroyed Cologne cathedral and others, stockpiled mustard and nerve gasses, and sent out radio and news releases essentially laughing at their successes, promising more and worse to come, and calling upon fellow Jews to murder Germans wherever they could be found? (All of this hypothetically taking place BEFORE any holocaust against the Jews, NOT after.)
SO, horrible as it is to think about, just what would be our response? Should we wage war upon Germans to enable fanatics to continue their relentless mass murder against them? What options ARE we prepared to offer or expect from another country in such a situation?
It's afair bet that question may need a real answer at some point soon. I'm not a huge fan of the 21st Century so far. And as a pretty harsh critic of Europe of late, I am not without sympathy. I believe they are facing a very difficult future, and some extremely hard choices.
Andrew:
But what if they start the gas chambers just because they're outnumbered?
The United States is powerful because it it rich. It is rich because it is free. It is free because it is Christian.
Posted by: Lou Gots at January 9, 2003 6:35 PMAnd Europe seems intent on reversing that process.
Posted by: at January 9, 2003 6:58 PMAnd Japan is rich because it is Chr . . .
oops.
As for what the US might do if X starts
gassing Y, well, what did it do in the past?
Nothing.
Japan is rich because us Judeo-Christians beat it bloody, took over the place for 7 years, gave it a decent government and more or less free access to our markets. And even that wasn't enough to make it self-sustaining.
Posted by: David Cohen at January 9, 2003 8:07 PMyou guys are all nuts. as someone who actually lives in london and barcelona, europe is doing just fine. last time i checked, the uk had a faster growing economy and lower unemployment than the US. do any of you punks earn 100,000 USD a year? doubt it!
Posted by: xavier at January 10, 2003 10:55 AMI'm somewhat distressed that we've got a bunch of Americans discussing decadent European culture and a European dismissing culture out-of-hand because he can earn a lot of money. That's the ugly American schtick, and I think I want it back.
Posted by: David Cohen at January 10, 2003 1:20 PMxavier:
Current US unemployment rate is 6%, an 8-year-high, and GDP growth is about 3.2%.
Britian is 5.4%/1.8%, respectively, and the Euro area as a whole is at 8.4% unemployment, 0.8% GDP growth.
(Interestingly, the fastest growing western coutries this past year were Ireland, NZ, Canada, and Austrailia. Where have I seen that grouping before?)
And I myself do just fine, thank you.
xavier;
Yes.
But of course the falseness of your thesis (particularly with regards to money) is evident in immigration statistics.
In fact it is the very secularization of western philosophy that allows it to be practiced successfully by persons of so many different religions. Do not confuse form with reality. What we have in common is not our religiosity, but our underlying sense of justice and equality under the law.
Try to insert more religion into the law and you end up with an Iran or Taliban ruled Afghanistan.
As for Europe, it is only alive due to the protection of the US. Take away that protection and europe crumbles under its own weight.
RB:
Not quite. There's a strong assumption in Western philosophy, until recently, that ultimate truths are attainable, that we don't just have ideas, but that something actual exists behind them. We can seek justice because there is such a thing in the abstract--it's not merely something we make up as we go along.
Equality--as in the equality of the Declaration, not of Rawls--is specifically derived from the notion that we are Created beings.
Remove these things, as you must once you remove religion, and you have the kind of relativistic existential rot that's destroying Europe.