April 21, 2008
THE POINT...:
Hamas accepts two-state idea, says Carter (Rory McCarthy, 4/22/08, The Guardian)
Carter acknowledged that Hamas still refused to renounce violence, to recognise explicitly Israel's right to exist, or to recognise previous peace accords. The movement refused to speed up the release of Gilad Shalit, an Israeli corporal captured two years ago, though it did tell Carter it would let the soldier write a new letter to his parents to prove he was still alive.While Carter condemned attacks by Hamas as "despicable" and "acts of terrorism" in his speech yesterday, he sounded encouraged by his talks, which included meetings with the most powerful Hamas leader in Gaza, Mahmoud Zahar, and its exiled head, Khaled Meshal.
"They said they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders if approved by Palestinians and they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbour next door in peace, provided the agreements negotiated by prime minister Olmert and President Abbas were submitted to the Palestinians for their overall approval, even though Hamas might disagree with some terms of the agreement," he said.
In Damascus, Meshal appeared to confirm Carter's version. He said: "We agree to a state on pre-67 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital with genuine sovereignty without settlements but without recognising Israel." Hamas would "respect Palestinian national will even if it was against our convictions".
...is to create a state of Palestine. The rest takes care of itself. Posted by Orrin Judd at April 21, 2008 7:29 PM
Hamas announced that they would not abide by any 'referendum' of the Palestinian people.
By all means give them a state. The Kabuki theater has to end. Just don't expect Mashaal (or Abbas, for that matter) to be any different than Mugabe. The most difficult step will be breaking the State Department, which blindly follows Hosni Mubarak, the Saudis, and Assad - all of whom will be strongly opposed.
Posted by: jim hamlen at April 21, 2008 11:51 PMThey've said they want a referendum but won't be bound to consider Israel a legitimate state, which it won't be by our standards in a few years.
Posted by: oj at April 22, 2008 7:11 AMThey want a referendum on what? I missed that.
And how is Israel to suddenly become 'illegitimate'? If you mean restricting the vote, virtually every country in the Middle East is illegitimate right now. Same for much of Africa and Asia.
Posted by: jim hamlen at April 22, 2008 8:21 AMBingo! Israel will have been Founded like a Western country but be sustained like a tribal dictatorship.
Posted by: oj at April 22, 2008 1:31 PMGood for Jimmy. Good for a ticket to another Nobel peace prize.
Now he should arbitrate the Democrat primary, declare himself the winner and run against McCain. The man is magical.
Posted by: Genecis at April 22, 2008 1:59 PMI was hoping you would tee off on that one.
Israel will have to come to terms with itself (regarding demographics). A smaller territory can remain 'viable' for longer, but may be politically impossible. And I am sure their fear is that someday soon the US will elect someone like Jimmy Carter, who would gladly shed crocodile tears if Israel just disappeared.
But Hamas is a non-entity with respect to governance. The entire Palestinian raison d'etre (since 1948) is to whine, murder, and then whine some more. Of course, they have been treated much worse by their Arab brethren than by the Israelis. But Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the rest don't whine. They just snarl. And shoot. And then slink off to their holes. Not a good model for reformation.
Did you see that Carter asked Mashaal for a one month truce, and was rebuffed? Hamas launched 7 rockets into Israel while Carter was in Damascus. Perhaps they consider that a mild hudna.
Everybody knows what peace will look like. The Palis don't want it, and the Israelis are probably beyond hoping for it (after all the bitterness from Oslo). Not a good mix. But I suspect the Palis (and the Hezbos) have used up their sympathy quotient. Absent an Obama in the White House, the Israelis might not be as half-hearted in the next big fight. They just might decide that killing 20,000 or so terrorists is a good thing. And everyone else should stay out of the way, after Hillary's obliteration declaration of yesterday.
Posted by: jim hamlen at April 22, 2008 6:24 PMThe Israeli populace, according to polls, wants to engage in mass deportation of Arabs in order to preserve the nation. Thus would they become the evil out of which their state was born.
The Palestinians want their land back. With patience they'll get it.
Hamas should fire rockets until Israel opens the borders, recognizes the government and lifts sanctions. One act of war deserves another.
Posted by: oj at April 22, 2008 7:02 PMThe "decent" Israeli Left was ground into submission a long time ago. The indecent Left is what it is. The Right is splintered, self-absorbed, and extremely near-sighted. The Center probably does not exist, except in journalistic fantasies (as in England).
Despite all that, they are a nation of laws, however dispirited. The Palestinians are a loose connection of gangs, terrorizing the mass of their people via indoctrination, lies, and violence (whatever works best). Their leaders (Mashaal, Haniyeh, Arafat, Abbas, Erekat, etc.) are thugs who have found the good life shaking down their people and living off the blood money they get from Europe and the Saudis. Plus, they get to kill now and again (some more than others).
There is no government in Palestine. Israel could simply declare one, I suppose, but then we would see the farce of Haniyeh telling the world "No, it's not me! I am not the President!" Mashaal would say the same. And so on. The best thing for the Palis would be to attack the United States - in 3 or 4 years, they might become the 51st state.
By the way, closing a border is not an act of war. Not when you send electricity, water, food, and medicine across it every day. If Israel simply fired a rocket in return, one for one, it would be better than what they have now.
Posted by: jim hamlen at April 22, 2008 8:32 PMGermany, South Africa and the South had laws--they were just racial laws.
Posted by: oj at April 23, 2008 5:42 AM