November 16, 2005

SHAKE AND BAKE:

US defends use of white phosphorus (Will Dunham, 11/16/05, Reuters)

The Pentagon on Wednesday acknowledged using incendiary white-phosphorus munitions in a 2004 offensive against insurgents in the Iraqi city of Falluja and defended their use as legal, amid concerns by arms control advocates. [...]

"It's part of our conventional-weapons inventory and we use it like we use any other conventional weapon," added Bryan Whitman, another Pentagon spokesman.

Venable said white phosphorus weapons are not outlawed or banned by any convention. [...]

U.S. forces used the white phosphorus during a major offensive launched by Marines in Falluja, about 30 miles (50 km) west of Baghdad, to flush out insurgents. The battle in November of last year involved some of the toughest urban fighting of the 2-1/2-year war.

Venable said that in the Falluja battle, "U.S. forces used white phosphorous both in its classic screening mechanism and ... when they encountered insurgents who were in foxholes and other covered positions who they could not dislodge any other way."

He said the soldiers employed a "shake-and-bake" technique of using white phosphorus shells to flush enemies out of hiding and then use high explosives artillery rounds to kill them.


Posted by Orrin Judd at November 16, 2005 5:41 PM
Comments

As long as we killed them with something else, that's ok then.

Posted by: David Cohen at November 16, 2005 6:39 PM

Isn't that a "Bake and Shake" strategy?

Posted by: pj at November 16, 2005 8:00 PM

White phosphorous ignites spontaneously upon contact with oxygen. If it comes into contact with a persons skin it will continue to burn as long as oxygen is available, going as far down as the bone. As we have seen time and again the United States has had to backtrack and restate what is happening in regards to Iraq. Each revision of the "truth" results in a lowering of the world's opinion of the war. How refreshing it would be to have one story told, and it be the correct one the first time around!

All of this is very disturbing. In light of the topic you have a good site. Keep up the good work.

http://www.illmethinks.com

g

Posted by: g at November 16, 2005 8:17 PM

g:

They're awfiully straightforward that we use it and will keep doing so.

Posted by: oj at November 16, 2005 8:33 PM

Goodness. Apologies are therefore long overdue to the thousands of soldiers of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany who were cooked in their caves and pillboxes by flamethrower streams of jellied gasoline. On second thought, to Hell with them. Weapons like white phosphorus help save our guys' lives. Publicity about them helps encourage bad guys to throw down their weapons and surrender, or run away.

Posted by: Axel Kassel at November 16, 2005 8:38 PM

If they'd just surrender or cease fighting we wouldn't have to use such awful weapons, like, you know, weapons. So it really is their fault, you see, they make us do this, use these weapons so that we can kill them in a bizare suicide-by-US troops scenario that they keep forcing us to engage in. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Posted by: Mikey at November 16, 2005 8:52 PM

We need safer and more humane ordnance.

Posted by: Bob Hawkins at November 16, 2005 9:33 PM

If it comes into contact with a persons skin it will continue to burn as long as oxygen is available, going as far down as the bone.

As opposed to bullets and shrapnel, which when they come in contact with a person's skin continue to penetrate, going down as far as all the way through the bone and out the other side.

Posted by: joe shropshire at November 16, 2005 9:42 PM

During the Korean War US forces dropped white phosphorous on my Dad's bunker.

Posted by: carter at November 16, 2005 10:13 PM

You're the son of a North Korean soldier?! Huh?

Posted by: JackSheet at November 16, 2005 10:29 PM

There's no such thing as friendly fire, Jack.

Posted by: joe shropshire at November 16, 2005 11:11 PM

bring back dum-dum bullets. Why do I care how aweful the deaths of enemy soldiers are? If they wish to live they can throw down their weapons and raise their hands.

This is the Perfect War. They want to die, and we want to kill them.
-Sgt. Major Henry Bergeron, 1st Marine Division

Posted by: Robert Schwartz at November 17, 2005 3:04 AM

Apparently it was Allah's will that Willy Pete would kill them.

Who are we to argue?

Posted by: Jeff Guinn at November 17, 2005 7:30 AM

Certain weapons are held to be prohibited for some purposes and not for others. White phosprorous is one one these. Perfectly lawful for marking and screening, not to be intentionally chosen an anti-personnel device.

In practice, the distinction has litttle meaning,and those who do not commit the war crime (i.e., losing) have little to worry about. An illustration of the meaninglessness of this issue may be devined from the literature which condemns our use of WP as being against the "spirit" of "international law."

To illustrate how little all this amounts to, let us consider how HMG's are covered by the LoW. During Gulf War II, the Norwegian chapter of the Friends of Saddam was pressuring Norway to stop supplying the United States with the .50 cal projectiles we were loading into our .50 BMG rounds. Not to worry, we told them, we know the rules, we use .50's for anti-vehichle, anti-air, the way the rules say.

While this discussion was taking place, the whole world saw battle footage in which we took out a Rag position defended by infantry behind a kind of long, hign berm. The position was taken out by a couple of tanks which hosed down the enemy with perfect flanking, grazing, enfilade fire from, you guessed it, their fifties.

The whole world saw it; nobody batted an eye, not even the Norwegian FoS, the war crime not having been committed..

Posted by: Lou Gots at November 17, 2005 9:45 AM

g:

people have opinions, 'the world' doesn't.

Posted by: JonofAtlanta at November 17, 2005 9:54 AM

And an IED is okay? And a suicide bomb in a crowded marketplace is okay?

Posted by: pchuck at November 17, 2005 10:49 AM

Let's kill them off by peaceful means. h/t Tom Lehrer's, "Send in the Marines."

Posted by: erp at November 17, 2005 11:57 AM

I''m more partial to Randy Newman's Political Science: "They don't love us anyhow, so let's drop the big one now."

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at November 17, 2005 12:29 PM

That's an affirmative, Lou. In the Army we were taught to fire .50 cal rounds at equipment rather than personnel. Of course we interpreted "equipment" to include helmets, canteens, LBE, belts and the like, so it all worked out for the best.

Posted by: jefferson park at November 17, 2005 1:43 PM

Half a dozen American troops were awarded Medals of Honor using white phosphorus.

Posted by: pchuck at November 18, 2005 12:31 PM
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