October 18, 2005

NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL A BONE (via David Cohen with title):

US security chief strives to expel all illegal immigrants (AP, 10/18/05)

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said his department aims without exception to expel all those who enter the United States illegally.

"Our goal at DHS (Homeland Security) is to completely eliminate the 'catch and release' enforcement problem, and return every single illegal entrant, no exceptions.

"It should be possible to achieve significant and measurable progress to this end in less than a year," Chertoff told a Senate hearing.

Posted by Orrin Judd at October 18, 2005 2:20 PM

Not holding my breath.

Posted by: Paul Cella at October 18, 2005 2:25 PM

They're only kidding.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 2:31 PM


Posted by: Matt Murphy at October 18, 2005 2:32 PM

Does anyone here remember the illegal immigration prevention plan from Coneheads: The Movie?

Posted by: Matt Murphy at October 18, 2005 2:43 PM


Been meaning to ask you, which of the following, IF IT COULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED would have saved the American Indians:

1) Guns
2) Germs
3) Steel
4) Mass European immigration.

Thatís a pretty easy question.

Posted by: h-man at October 18, 2005 2:59 PM

5) All of the above.

Posted by: AllenS [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 18, 2005 3:17 PM

5) The land bridge over the Bering Straights.

The point of Chertoff's testimony, like the suggestion that the military take the lead in responding to domestic disasters, is to call the bluff of those who have been pushing the idea.

Posted by: David Cohen at October 18, 2005 3:33 PM

The ACLU machine is spooling up and the poverty pimps are spraying their throats, just to be ready for tonight's cable talk shows.

They're not joking - Chertoff doesn't kid around.

Posted by: ratbert at October 18, 2005 3:47 PM

No David, Chertoff is reacting to p*ssed off citizens. There was a similar illegal-immigration crisis in the 1950ís that everyone has now forgotten. The Eisenhower administration ended it. Within six months after coming to power, he threw out 1.5 million Mexicans. Such isn't even necessary today, if they start enforcing Employer sanctions of roughy a thousand dollars a pop. The Mexicans without jobs will go back to

Mexico because of the lack of jobs available to them (the jobs will still be available to our fine citizens. They need of course to improve the present resident alien card, which shouldn't be too difficult.

Still would like an answer to my question.

Posted by: h-man at October 18, 2005 4:03 PM

H: I didn't see where the mass migration of AmerIndians to Britain made much difference.

As for Chertoff, he may or may not mean it, but he has to know that Congress is going to punt. There is no substantial lobby for getting rid of illegals. Even the Unions don't care.

Posted by: David Cohen at October 18, 2005 4:17 PM

I don't get the title.

Posted by: Robert Schwartz at October 18, 2005 4:26 PM

I'm not sure how:
American Indians : European colonists :: Americans : Mexicans

But I'm kind of a dunderhead that way. H-man, would you care to educate my dumb tucchus? Specifically, how do you know that Mexicans think of Americans as uneducated, unenlightened barely human savages? Also, explain how the Mexicans have a completely different culture that shares neither religion nor an economic viewpoint.

Posted by: Governor Breck at October 18, 2005 4:36 PM

One thing that would have helped the Indians would have been to stay out of intra-European wars, and when they did pick sides, stop picking losers. From the "French and Indian" war to siding with the British in the Revolutionary wars to the "Civilized Tribes" siding with the Confederates, they always showed a remarkable ability to annoy the US for no gain.

Illegals aren't just poor brown Mexicans, but Ph.Ds from Euroland. Whenever I get hired for a software contracting position, I have to show all sorts of paperwork proving I'm "entitled" to work in this country. By making honest people prove their innocence, with the assumption that otherwise they are guilty, it's just like so many other big gov't programs. It's designed to criminalize everyone except the people willing and eager to break the laws or game the system (both employers and employees). Police powers are something the state understands and likes.

As for the bone being thrown, words are cheap.

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at October 18, 2005 4:48 PM

That would by the way be the Christian Mexicans who come here seekling capitalist and democratic opportunity...

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 4:51 PM


Know what it would cost and how many people we'd have to draft into a Homeland Security Border/Immigration force? We'd need so many of the latter they'd have to be imported workers.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 4:54 PM


Saved? There was nothing to save. They were savages.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 5:00 PM


No significant increase in the Border patrol is necessary, if the Mexicans realize they will not be legally hired. That is the point where the breakdown occurred. I won't comment on your negative aspersion on American Indians.


Any culture can be destroyed when it is overwhelmed with immigration. Some are weaker than others (such as the American Indians, and present day Europeans) I personally think our own culture is vunerable. It's not necessary that Mexicans attain majority status to have a detrimental effect. Look to their homeland to see the gist of their commitment to American Ideals. I think in the future they will be merely another "minority" group set to stick to white man.

Posted by: h-man at October 18, 2005 5:24 PM

They aren't legally hired now. Tom Tancredo still hires them to remodel his kitchen.

Diamond, typically, left out the only G that mattered, as nativists do: God.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 5:27 PM

It would cost less than $4 Billion to build a wall on the US/Mexican border. Given the current administrations spending habits that's a trivial sum. Of course, since Illegal aliens cost California alone over $10 billion a year in education, health care and jail expenses, the wall easily pays for itself.

Posted by: carter at October 18, 2005 5:46 PM

Strange how on this blog people say that there is no lobby against illegal immigration, when almost everyone I know - regardless of their political persuasion - agrees that illegal immigration must stop. This has been true in all 3 states that I've lived in. There doesn't seem to be any will among elected officials to do something, but the public definitely wants something done.

Posted by: Chris Durnell at October 18, 2005 6:04 PM


Yes, you could build the Maginot line for $4 billion, but you'd have to use illegals to do the work, as New Orleans demonstrates and then the others would just go around or under it.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 6:09 PM


You can't think that elected pols are bravely standing up to the public? Everyone bitches about it but there's no stomach to do anything about it.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 6:10 PM

Do you want to know how the real world works or just operate on automatic pilot? A person applies and he is asked for his resident alien card. The employer fills out the Federal form and Photo Copies the Resident Alien card. At that point he is clean.

If you have a resident alien card similar to say credit cards, and Employers are required to get electonic verification of that card instantly, then the illegal will not hired. Simple. Actually there are many other checks that are obvious that would cut down on fraud. No it won't end all job prospects, but such a significant number as to make the problem negligible.

Posted by: h-man at October 18, 2005 6:40 PM

The ilegals all work as nannies, dishwashers, cooks, and busboys, garden maintenance, construction etc.

No one checks for resident alien cards for the jobs they do.

Posted by: Jim in Chicago at October 18, 2005 7:09 PM


I agree there is no political will to spend the money to 'close' the borders; however, this issue is becoming like campaign-finance reform - to do nothing is less and less safe (for the whores in D.C.).

Now, if all illegals picked up by state and local law enforcement were immediately deported (and not to Tijuana but perhaps across the border from Brownsville), then there would be some dislocation to the current mess. How long will that last (i.e., how much will it cost)? Unknown.

Posted by: ratbert at October 18, 2005 7:29 PM

Of all the arguments the nativists make, the idea that immigrants are a net cost is the most bizarre.

Posted by: David Cohen at October 18, 2005 7:36 PM


Dishwashers, cooks? You don't think every franchise restaurant in this country, doesn't have paperwork including evidence of Resident Alien Card. Construction Companies, don't need to be bonded?. At a thousand dollars a pop, those jobs end. I said it would not cover all jobs, but I can say with confidence that 75% of the illegal aliens in this country are working in such jobs. We are talking 20% of all Mexican National working in the US, illegally. While you are correct that employer sanctions would not get all of them, I do think that ther bulk of the problem would be solved.

Posted by: h-man at October 18, 2005 8:02 PM

I try and not be bizarre, but if an immigrant comes to America and goes on welfare and never does productive work, then they are a net cost. It is bizarre to not think that can occur in the US.

I have never suggested any such thing is the case with Mexicans, but yes I can visualize it happening in the future. As a matter of fact we have citizens who are a net cost, so the burden would be on you to show that if given the political leverage of other minority groups Mexican will not make an effort to do the same.

Posted by: h-man at October 18, 2005 8:14 PM


They can't fake an ID for a job but can fdor Welfare? It's like some Know-Nothing dreamland you live in.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 8:23 PM


Yes, that's why the wall is perfect. It's the illusion of being serious.

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 8:25 PM

So if an illegal-immigrant-prevention wall at the U.S.' southern border wouldn't work, then why does the Israeli security wall work ?

But, in fact, we do know that such a wall would work with 90%+ effectiveness, since we've built a few stretches of security wall and high-security fencing.

That's why immigrants started crossing and dying in the deserts of Arizona and New Mexico.

The reason that such a fairly cheap and extremely effective border wall hasn't been built is because not enough Americans care.
And, unless someone smuggles a nuke in from Mexico, they're going to care even less in five years, when the Boomers start retiring at the rate of three million a year - that's 2% of the entire current labor force gone, per year, every year.

Posted by: Michael Herdegen [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 18, 2005 10:33 PM

It's easy to get fake Alien Registration and SS cards. When they catch the people making the fake IDs they get a slap on the wrist. My company gets a phone call from SS Admin every year telling me who's ID doesn't match their SSN. When we tell them we need proper ID, they quit and go to work for our competitors down the street, but they still come back for a beer now and then. Great guys for the most part.

Posted by: Patrick H at October 18, 2005 10:43 PM

It's one fourth the length of just the US/Mexican land border and is the main military focus of the entire nation of Israel. If we manned that fence as heavily as Israel mans its border how many troops would we have to add to our military? A few tens or hundreds of thousands? And the Israelis are just trying to stop a few guys who they can freely shoot on sight.

Then you just have to worry about the coastline...

Posted by: oj at October 18, 2005 10:48 PM

H: I suspect that the contributions to GDP made by immigrants and their descendents is greater than the cost to us of the current generation of immigrants.

Now, explain to me how illegal immigrants get welfare benefits without fraud.

Posted by: David Cohen at October 18, 2005 11:03 PM

OJ and David

The fact is that in several states immigrants are getting ID's (drivers License etc..) issued by the local states and are eligible for all public services, such as medical care, educational benefits, food stamps, rent subsidies, AFDC. You can read for instance this PDF file dated 1996. It's much worse now. http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf.

Regardless that is a growth industry (welfare) that relates to this particular group of immigrants. No one here has heard of anchor babies? Do you think "anchor babies" are used to start software companies?

From World net Daily

"Felipa gave birth to her fourth child, daughter Flor, the family had what is referred to as an "anchor baby" Ė an American citizen by birth who provided the entire Silverio clan a ticket to remain in the U.S. permanently"

"Flor gets $600 a month.... Cristian gets $400. While the Silverios earned $18,000 last year picking fruit, they picked up another $12,000 for their two "anchor babies."

As I stated originally, my fear is that this is the future. Of all of my "know-nothing" ravings this is the most obvious and indisputable. Heaven forbid that you should compare Mexican immigration with Chinese, South Asian Indian, Korean immigration.

Posted by: h-man at October 19, 2005 4:28 AM


Yes, Blue states and European nations will be competing for immigrants as their own populations implode. Already places like Spain pay immigrants to come there.

Drivers licenses are just one way they'll seek to attract immigrants.

Posted by: oj at October 19, 2005 8:31 AM

H: If states choose to provide services to illegal immigrants rather than report them to INS, then why should we care? You overstate, however, the services that are available. If people are going to commit fraud to obtain welfare, new laws aren't the obvious answer.

"Anchor babies" are a myth. A US citizen does not have the right to petition for residency for even immediate relatives until age 21. Illegal aliens with citizen children are routinely deported.

Posted by: David Cohen at October 19, 2005 11:07 AM